zohaibahd

In a nutshell: AMD's Ryzen 9000 series CPUs represented a significant improvement in many areas. However, some eagle-eyed reviewers and users noticed a potential drawback: core-to-core latency was noticeably higher in the Zen 5 architecture compared to the Ryzen 7000 chips across different core complex dies. Now, engineers have a solution to address the issue.

While the company has not officially commented on the issue, AMD has addressed it with a microcode update included in AGESA version 1.2.0.2. Some OEMs, including Asus, have already started implementing the firmware update. AGESA, which stands for AMD Generic Encapsulated Software Architecture, provides low-level tweaks to the chip's behavior.

Early testing indicates that the update significantly reduces inter-CCD latencies. One enthusiast on Overclock.net reported a dramatic decrease in cross-CCD latencies from approximately 180ns to just 75ns after applying the patch.

(Click to enlarge)

The high latencies in the Ryzen 9000 series were attributed to new tuning parameters implemented by AMD to enhance performance for specific workloads, according to the creators of the popular Y-Cruncher benchmark utility.

While the latency issue may not have had a significant impact on real-world performance, many Ryzen 9000 owners are seeing improved CPU benchmark scores, such as in Cinebench R23, after applying the update. However, the increase of around 500 points is relatively minor given the chip's already impressive speed. Still, in the eyes of enthusiasts, every little bit counts.

Currently, only Asus has released BIOS versions with AGESA 1.2.0.2, and these are still in beta. If you prefer to avoid potential issues, it might be best to wait for more stable builds. Nonetheless, motherboard makers typically adopt major revisions quickly, so other vendors are likely to follow soon.

AMD's swift action to resolve the latency issue is commendable, but it wasn't the only challenge the company faced post-Zen 5 release. Enthusiasts had previously noted that the Ryzen 9000 series fell short of anticipated performance gains. AMD later identified missing "branch-prediction optimizations" as the cause and, in collaboration with Microsoft, issued a subsequent fix.

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AMD microcode update improves CCD latency on Ryzen 9000 CPUs

hahahanoobs

A fix that can only be seen in benchmarks?
I guess that's cool.

axiomatic13

I would love it if this takes the PPM driver requirement off the 9950x?

Manoa

Yhe that would be good, axiomatic

and remember this is a latency improvement, which is not even supposed to show up in throughtput benchmarks, you may not get more operations/s from the processor, but you should get significant improve to inter-core interactivity. I think a broader test of this patch is in order, I wonder which realistic work gets improved from this

but it should have been fixed before the processor was out

but then again the advertising of the processor performance also should (not) have been...fixed

Burty117

axiomatic13 said:
I would love it if this takes the PPM driver requirement off the 9950x?

I have to ask, what issues do you have with the PPM driver?

Felusy · 2024-09-19T07:18:14-0400

Does not change the fact that dual CCD SKUs sucks for gamers, compared to single CCD.

In gaming:

7700X beats 7950X
7800X3D beats 7950X3D
9700X beats 9950X
And 9800X3D will beat 9950X3D too.

AMD don't offer everything in a single chip: Top gaming performance, tons of cores, high clockspeed. Sadly you have to choose. Only 3D chips are worth buying for gamers, which is why Ryzen 9000 series don't sell at all in the DIY market yet AMD decided to launch 9000X3D in 2025. Big facepalm.

Can't wait to see Lunar Lake and especially Arrow Lake on 3nm in a few weeks.

I bet AMD is going to rush 9000X3D forward when Intel slams Zen 5 non-3D.

Zen 5 is the worst AMD CPU launch since Bulldozer. Only aggressively priced 3D chips that are not too gimped on clockspeed and unlocked for OC will change the Ryzen 9000 failure.

I use 7800X3D right now. Great gaming chip but lacks performance outside of gaming. I will buy 285K or upgrade to 9800X3D if Intel don't deliver but Ryzen 9000 non-3D is just meh.

Ryzen 9000 boxes are collecting dust all over the world. Bare anyone buys them. When will AMD lower prices? Post Arrow Lake? Probably yeah.

It is insane that AMD still can't do a proper next gen CPU launch after all those tries. When will they learn? New boards and both regular and 3D chips on release. How hard can it be.

Yet AMD decided to cheap out and use 5nm again, rebrand chipsets and deliver close to no gen to gen improvement. Someone needs to get fired over this massive failure. Lisa Su allowed it to happen tho.

Burty117

Felusy said:
7800X3D beats 7950X3D

I think "beats" isn't the correct word to use here, as overall, the 7950X3D is on average, 1fps quicker.

You simply don't run into any weird issues with the 7800X3D as it's a single CCD, But look up any reviews for the 7800X3D, the 7950X3D is generally the same or faster, with the odd game being much slower because Windows hasn't put it on the correct CCD.

And that was at the time of review, from personal experience (I have a 7950X3D in one machine and a 7800X3D in another) I've found close to no difference between them, generally, the 7950X3D will run games near identically. It's once you start doing other stuff (video encoding mainly for me) that the 7950X3D runs miles ahead.

pencea

Felusy said:
Does not change the fact that dual CCD SKUs sucks for gamers, compared to single CCD.

In gaming:

7700X beats 7950X
7800X3D beats 7950X3D
9700X beats 9950X
And 9800X3D will beat 9950X3D too.

AMD don't offer everything in a single chip: Top gaming performance, tons of cores, high clockspeed. Sadly you have to choose. Only 3D chips are worth buying for gamers, which is why Ryzen 9000 series don't sell at all in the DIY market yet AMD decided to launch 9000X3D in 2025. Big facepalm.

Can't wait to see Lunar Lake and especially Arrow Lake on 3nm in a few weeks.

I bet AMD is going to rush 9000X3D forward when Intel slams Zen 5 non-3D.

Zen 5 is the worst AMD CPU launch since Bulldozer. Only aggressively priced 3D chips that are not too gimped on clockspeed and unlocked for OC will change the Ryzen 9000 failure.

I use 7800X3D right now. Great gaming chip but lacks performance outside of gaming. I will buy 285K or upgrade to 9800X3D if Intel don't deliver but Ryzen 9000 non-3D is just meh.

Ryzen 9000 boxes are collecting dust all over the world. Bare anyone buys them. When will AMD lower prices? Post Arrow Lake? Probably yeah.

It is insane that AMD still can't do a proper next gen CPU launch after all those tries. When will they learn? New boards and both regular and 3D chips on release. How hard can it be.

Yet AMD decided to cheap out and use 5nm again, rebrand chipsets and deliver close to no gen to gen improvement. Someone needs to get fired over this massive failure. Lisa Su allowed it to happen tho.

Why do you feel the need to upgrade if you already have the 7800x3d, which is still the fastest gaming CPU on the market?

I highly doubt either Intel's 285k nor AMD's upcoming 9000x3d variant will be that much faster for gaming.

Vanderlinde

God,

I hope tools like this would be released for public to tune and fiddle around with your own CPU like that.

axiomatic13

Burty117 said:
I have to ask, what issues do you have with the PPM driver?

I watched Jay2Cents video on the specific things that need to be done for the PPM driver to trigger, and it's things I have removed from my operating system. Such as the Windows Game Overlay. I think the PPM driver is just fine for x3D models. I think the X series should remain free of the PPM driver as it did every previous generation of AMD X series processors did, until the 9950x which is the outlier.

Burty117

axiomatic13 said:
I watched Jay2Cents video on the specific things that need to be done for the PPM driver to trigger, and it's things I have removed from my operating system. Such as the Windows Game Overlay. I think the PPM driver is just fine for x3D models. I think the X series should remain free of the PPM driver as it did every previous generation of AMD X series processors did, until the 9950x which is the outlier.

Ah, okay, explains why I've had no issues, I left the OS pretty much stock, or at least, I didn't get rid of anything games related.

axiomatic13

The cross CCD latency looks much better. I imagine Windows could run fine without it now.
AMD AGESA PI 1.2.0.2 Performance With The Ryzen 9 9950X On Linux

RaXelliX

Felusy said:
Can't wait to see Lunar Lake and especially Arrow Lake on 3nm in a few weeks.

3nm comes at a price and likely lower availability. There's a reason most everyone else have avoided using 3nm so far.

Felusy said:
I use 7800X3D right now. Great gaming chip but lacks performance outside of gaming.

You mean it lacks higher core count of the Ryzen 9 models?
Other than that I dont see 8c/16t lacking in performance for most workloads.

Felusy said:
Yet AMD decided to cheap out and use 5nm again

N4P. 5nm class yes. At least the prices are lower than Zen 4 launch prices.
Also likely Intel bought up all the available 3nm supply for this year. I guess this is one way to nerf your competitor...

Felusy

RaXelliX said:
3nm comes at a price and likely lower availability. There's a reason most everyone else have avoided using 3nm so far.

You mean it lacks higher core count of the Ryzen 9 models?
Other than that I dont see 8c/16t lacking in performance for most workloads.

N4P. 5nm class yes. At least the prices are lower than Zen 4 launch prices.
Also likely Intel bought up all the available 3nm supply for this year. I guess this is one way to nerf your competitor...

Yields on TSMC 3N are not bad at all. You won't see low availability. Apple has been using TSNC 3N for 1½ years.

AMD cheaped out here, nothing else. 3N was ready but they went with the cheaper node and this affected the gen to gen improvement alot. Zen 5 was pretty meh after after all. Also, AMD reused 7nm IOD. And rebranded chipsets as well.

AMD loses node advantage with Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake and leaks shows Intel is in the lead again, both in performance and batterylife. AMDs only hope is 9000X3D really, or rush forward Zen 6 at 3N.

Zen 5 has been considered a massive failure so far. And the CPUs are collecting dust in warehouses. 3D might save them for gamers, but for a brand new arch, and hyped up arch, Zen 5 was just meh.

Felusy

Burty117 said:
I think "beats" isn't the correct word to use here, as overall, the 7950X3D is on average, 1fps quicker.

You simply don't run into any weird issues with the 7800X3D as it's a single CCD, But look up any reviews for the 7800X3D, the 7950X3D is generally the same or faster, with the odd game being much slower because Windows hasn't put it on the correct CCD.

And that was at the time of review, from personal experience (I have a 7950X3D in one machine and a 7800X3D in another) I've found close to no difference between them, generally, the 7950X3D will run games near identically. It's once you start doing other stuff (video encoding mainly for me) that the 7950X3D runs miles ahead.

Nuff said. Its pretty common knowledge that 7800X3D beats 7950X3D because dual CCD chips have added latency and loses gaming performance.

Felusy

pencea said:
Why do you feel the need to upgrade if you already have the 7800x3d, which is still the fastest gaming CPU on the market?

I highly doubt either Intel's 285k nor AMD's upcoming 9000x3d variant will be that much faster for gaming.

Because I like hardware. I upgrade all the time.

I will be using 285K or 9800X3D in the next 3-4 months.

I will also be using 5090 instead of my 4090.

Hardware is my hobby. This is a hardware forum.
Some people spend thousands of dollars a year on their car. PC hardware is cheap. Peanuts really. I upgrade many times yearly.

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