midian18

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TL;DR: The prospect of China invading Taiwan has become increasingly more likely in recent years, which is why the US Department of Defense has come up with a strategy for protecting the island should the worst happen: an "unmanned hellscape" of drones.

At the International Institute for Strategic Studies' annual Shangri-La Dialogue (via Wired), US Indo-Pacific Command chief Navy Admiral Samuel Paparo talked about the plan to defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion: "I want to turn the Taiwan Strait into an unmanned hellscape using a number of classified capabilities, so that I can make their lives utterly miserable for a month, which buys me the time for the rest of everything."

China has been able to produce cheaper versions of the drones used by the US, meaning they can produce them in greater numbers and faster, giving the country an advantage in any potential conflict over Taiwan.

Last year, the DoD unveiled the Replicator initiative, a program designed to accelerate the deployment of autonomous systems, such as drones, across various military branches. It's hoped that Replicator can produce thousands of AI-powered uncrewed weapons to help it overcome China's advantage of having more ships, people, and missiles.

The first part of Replicator will be the deployment of thousands of autonomous systems across multiple domains within the next 18 to 24 months, part of the Pentagon's strategy to counter China's armed forces buildup. However, there are fears that the US does not have the capacity to produce drones at the required scale needed for a war with China.

The Taiwanese government is also putting more focus on drones as a means of protection. It's set to acquire 1,000 extra AI-powered attack drones next year and plans to expand its domestic production capabilities. Taiwan also wants to lessen reliance on Chinese-made commercial parts; because of DJI's dominance of the commercial market, Taiwan would have to hack any Chinese drones it was using to ensure they couldn't be tracked or hacked by China, noted Stacie Pettyjohn, a senior fellow and director of defense programs at the Center for a New American Security.

"Consider that for most of the first-person-view kamikaze drones used in Ukraine right now, all of those components are sourced from China," Pettyjohn added. "Even Ukraine has tried to wean itself off Chinese sources and hasn't found anything at a comparable price point."

China is also investing more in its own autonomous systems, including a substantial amount to produce weapons with swarming capability.

Most analysts believe that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan would be fairly disastrous for the electronics industry and, according to Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, could lead to a deep and immediate US recession. One of the biggest issues is what would happen to TSMC in such a scenario. There has been talk of its facilities being disabled remotely and even the US bombing the plants to stop them from falling into China's hands, but many say they would simply become inoperable.

Last month, Donald Trump said Taiwan should pay the US for its defense of the island. "You know, we're no different than an insurance company. Taiwan doesn't give us anything," he said.

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By all means keep spending on deterrence and saber rattling, but the continued cost of war in Ukraine is likely to take the air out from under hawks for the near future.
 
Last month, Donald Trump said Taiwan should pay the US for its defense of the island.
To a mindset versed on paternalism and dependency, the idea of self-sufficiency is abhorrent, but Taiwan is a prize to China precisely because it can afford to defend itself.

You may also want to annotate the article with the fact that US arms sales to China were repeatedly blocked or slowrolled in past years:

FT, 2011: "...The Obama administration has drawn fire from lawmakers from across the political spectrum for deciding against selling new F-16 fighter jets to Taiwan, accusing it of being “timid” under pressure from China...."

This chart shows the disparity in arms sales by administration; in 2019 alone, the Trump Administration approved more arms to Taiwan than nearly all eight years of Obama:



And while Biden is wisely continuing Trump's policy of arms sales, he's not actually delivering them. Just this year, the rapidly-escalating backlog reached its highest point in US history:

US-Taiwan arms sale backlog:

May 2020: 8.9B
Dec 2021: 14.1B
Dec 2022: 18.9B
June 2024: 20.5B

 
By all means keep spending on deterrence and saber rattling, but the continued cost of war in Ukraine is likely to take the air out from under hawks for the near future.
As long as Putin loses, Ukrainian is invaluable, especially since it weakens Russia financially and technologically, while taking a huge toll in their people's moral and confidence in their country....that's the real cost for Russia.
 
As long as Putin loses, Ukrainian is invaluable, especially since it weakens Russia financially and technologically, while taking a huge toll in their people's moral and confidence in their country....that's the real cost for Russia.
Hawks in China...
 
"... Taiwan doesn't give us anything,"
Just the computer chips that power most of the modern economy.

As long as Putin loses, Ukrainian is invaluable, especially since it weakens Russia financially ...
It also isn't doing much for European countries either but it has solidified us as a group. The only ones profiting from this are China and India with cheap oil. I do wonder a little what the enormous US defence budget is being used for if not for a hot war with Russia or a luke warm war with China. I suspect many US allies are currently looking at the US as a bit of a fair weather friend.

 
Really - this is a very nuanced subject , and one liners are about as useful as saying Israel is in the wrong or palestinians are in the wrong - Meaningless and useless going forward

The USA defense industry is a big boon or burden on America- depending on your assumptions and subjective ratings

Drone warfare is real and amped up in Russia/Ukraine war
Ukraines allies are getting massive feedback. Ukraine captured one of the latest Russian drone inference machines with attacked tech manual - as the fled in Kursk, giving up more land than captured in their meat waves in a whole year.

Does not matter China can put 1000000 in the sky, if they can all be made to crash . So this is not a numbers game but an AI tech war. Drones that don't need to call home or GPS ( that can be spoofed ) are more deadly

This all goes back to rules for AI in war. without looking I think rules in place already or in pipeline to stop killing machines gone wild - whether countries follow is another thing - Eg Russia's continuing war crimes
 
Due to the globalised nature of chip production, if China attacks it will screw over everyone.

I think they will wait until AFTER the election. If Harris/Walz lose, they will attack before Jan 20, 2025.
 
By all means keep spending on deterrence and saber rattling, but the continued cost of war in Ukraine is likely to take the air out from under hawks for the near future.
But they promised to fund the Ukraine war forever... because Ukraine were always such good friends with everyone, a bastion of democracy and peace, not a corruption and crime riddled state only eclipsed by Russia for it's dodgyness on the European continent.
 
But they promised to fund the Ukraine war forever... because Ukraine were always such good friends with everyone, a bastion of democracy and peace, not a corruption and crime riddled state only eclipsed by Russia for it's dodgyness on the European continent.

Ukraine is getting better, Russia is getting worse. It's a good thing wanting countries to get better. If Ukraine wants to join the EU it has to improve on a number of fronts

It is shame with you see counties in Persia or Russia with easy money from oil, that if not for poor leadership , corruption . They could have so many of their people better off.
Ultimately many lives are being lost on both sides. I hope somewhere done the line Russians come to their senses are throw off the corrupt leaders who call out any media not to their liking as fake and take actions. that put their family members in places of power to grift and steal, that don't accept free elections, use violence and incite insurrection to maintain power, to seek to be a dictator from day one, To control what you do if your home , your bedroom , they books you read, your daughters, wives bodies. Note the countries I mentioned have high violence against women that is justify by "values" and religion .
Once in power they have plans to remove any neutral state workers and put their own grifters in all important jobs.

Democracy , freedom and liberty to love who you want , to read what you want , to control your own body is worth standing up for. Glad you support that , all us decent people support free open media etc - grifters only out for themselves, adoration for those they hate as basement dwellers, dirty, losers, uneducated.
Thankfully Dictators like Putin who demand adoration from those he despites are now getting old and so so so low energy.- They want monument's, huge crowds, statues , big parades. they care nothing for the working man
Also thought it strange when Putin openly mocks powerful people in his party while they are on stage, saying they kiss his a***. Then those politicians get up and take it like c*cks they are . I even think Putin's supporters knows he detests them and is only after their vote.

Living in a huge palaces and mansions lording over all like a foul king
 
Ukraine is getting better...
Ukraine banned opposition political parties, banned all non state-run media, banned the nation's largest church for "disloyalty", cancelled all Presidential elections (and no, their Constitution does not "forbid" them), and has recently been urging school children to report their parents for speaking Russian at home, in violation of the national law that forbids even ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens from speaking their own language. Thousands have been arrested for criticizing Zelensky's policies publicly (an American journalist recently died in prison there for same) and any male who attempts to flee the country is instantly arrested and sent to the front.

Funny definition of "getting better".
 
@kiwigraeme
Dunno man. Ukrainians are still Rus and if you take away the existential requirement to do and say whatever the west wants they will behave like Rus. Just because Russia attempts to absorb them now does not make an instant intergenerational change to western thinking democratic philosophy.

Western people often fail to understand tribal mentality, it's hard to grasp unless you go and live in countries where it is prevalent. Even the idea of what a leader should be is vastly different.

My prediction is once the proxy war is over and the western dollars stop flowing Ukraine will return to being a hub of crime, cybercrime, human trafficking, weapons trafficking and corruption like it was before. I'd love to be wrong, but it's apparent that war doesn't teach morality.


Drone wars are an interesting thing though. It's going to be full terminator armageddon if taken to it's logical extreme.
 
But they promised to fund the Ukraine war forever... because Ukraine were always such good friends with everyone, a bastion of democracy and peace, not a corruption and crime riddled state only eclipsed by Russia for it's dodgyness on the European continent.

Sorry for the confusion, I meant hawks in China. The economic and global political damage Russia has suffered should be giving Chinese hawks cold feet.
 
Ah, I see, the other hawks. Thanks for the clarification.

You're right, China might feel more like it's mutually assured destruction because of the trade issues. If the international community is happy to spend so many war billions on a nation barely above enemy status imagine what they'd do for an ally who's got all the chips.
 
@kiwigraeme
Dunno man. Ukrainians are still Rus and if you take away the existential requirement to do and say whatever the west wants they will behave like Rus. Just because Russia attempts to absorb them now does not make an instant intergenerational change to western thinking democratic philosophy.

Western people often fail to understand tribal mentality, it's hard to grasp unless you go and live in countries where it is prevalent. Even the idea of what a leader should be is vastly different.

My prediction is once the proxy war is over and the western dollars stop flowing Ukraine will return to being a hub of crime, cybercrime, human trafficking, weapons trafficking and corruption like it was before. I'd love to be wrong, but it's apparent that war doesn't teach morality.


Drone wars are an interesting thing though. It's going to be full terminator armageddon if taken to it's logical extreme.
I'm an optimist, I going with the Nelson Mandela effect - ie no idea if he was a terrorist or not as Afrikaans claimed- never looked into it , probably did some dodgy stuff in his younger days. His wife Winnie was a piece of work.
Ie more beneficial for Nelson Mandela to be a Statesman . Yeah the corruption by others in South Africa not great. The gap between haves and have nots is increasing.
Ukraine has the benefit after this is over, of smaller population to resources like gas ,wheat etc . There will be a huge influx of rebuild money, I assume corrupt people will want to get their hands on it, but I think to keep if flowing, there will be safeguards.
Plus they have to meet EU stds if want to join, that's not to say Turkey is fully compliant or some others

To the point of drones their is speculation Ukraine will have quite a successful "defense" industry selling drones, missiles.
Many of the USSR's top scientists were Ukrainian .
I don't think Ukranians want to go backward.
I'm also optimistic about Russia in the longterm ( 15 years from now )
Not reading your Kimdot.com reply - I'm over that story - I just find it fascinating those with money can fight of legal consequences for over a decade.
Think he did dodgy crap in germany long ago , not sure.
Seems to be able to run a business. think Mega.com is reasonably successful.

If took over 2000 years for democracy to grow from selected Greek men to now in say NZ, England. Even now many citizens don't understand it that much. Russia and Ukraine have connections back to those Greek men and are 1800 years along if not more .
Even in Tsarist Russia the Tzar did introduce reforms and would have done more ( not fast ) but Lenin took over
 

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