Sinn Féin TD Brian Stanley also said the head of HR Eimear Cusack should also consider her position.
“Breda O’Keeffe should now pay back the money,” Mr Stanley told the Irish Independent.
“There was no redundancy here. The post was not extinguished. The post was filled by another person when she left.
“It’s clear that this wasn’t a redundancy, there was no justification for it. It was a goodbye package.”
He said there is no “legal basis” for her to pay back the fee but said there is a “moral basis”.
“[RTÉ] is a commercial semi state and that kind of carry on shouldn’t let get away with,” he said.
Mr Stanley said the full redundancy payments to all executives should be released “straight away”.
He said Ms Cusack, who gave evidence at the media committee today, should consider her position.
“She was head of HR, she had a crucial role in this. She signed off on it without having board approval and she knew that,” he said.
"She says she received an instruction from the DG - she should have brought to the attention of the whole board, including the appointed board and not just the executives.”
It comes as RTÉ Director General Kevin Bakhurst today revealed that Ms O’Keeffe was paid €450,000 as an exit package when she left the national broadcaster.
Mr Bakhurst said he didn’t know Ms O’Keeffe took an exit package until she said it at an Oireachtas Committee. He said he went “straight” to Ms Cusack, and she “gave the details”.
He said he couldn’t say what the package is worth in initial exchanges with Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon, saying it was "confidential".
“We have had significant legal pressure over months to get this report out and to deal with this issue,” said Mr Bakhurst.”
“There is a legal threat over this.
“Breda O’Keeffe was paid €450,000 to leave.”
He said the McCann Fitzgerald report into exit packages for RTE employees had faced “very significant legal obstacles”.
“I even got a letter, as of yesterday evening, from the solicitors of the previous chief financial officer setting out a range of things she would like me to say in committee and the response was, ‘You were invited, you can come in and say them yourself if you want to’.”
The Irish Independent’s live blog has now ended but all the main developments from this afternoon are included below.
Chair of the committee and FF TD Niamh Smyth “appealed” to Ms Forbes to come in.
“We do not want to go down the road of compelling but we may be left with no option,” said Ms Smyth.
She also asked Ms Doherty and Mr Coveney to come in.
She said Mr Coveney told her it was commercially sensitive when she asked about the Toy Show musical at previous Media Committee meetings.
Mr Hickey said he asked about ticket sales during the summer and they were going “so well”, he was told in October, that €300,000 profit would be made.
Mr O’Sullivan said “nobody seems to be taking responsibility”.
Mr Bakhurst said it would have been “reckless” to get rid of the entire RTÉ Executive. He said Mr Lynch and Ms Cusack are “driving the change” in the broadcaster.
He said “one or two members” took decisions and excluded the rest of the executive team. He said “all the big decisions” now come to the full executive team.
Mr Bakhurst said during the recruitment freeze, a “small number” of staff have been taken on.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said there is a “culture of arrogance” among senior figures within RTE, and there has been “poor governance” around decisions being made.
He was responding to questions from Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald, who said public trust in RTE has “crumbled” in the wake of a series of revelations relating to the broadcaster’s governance and finances, and that people “feel taken for fools”.
A vote is to take place on Sinn Fein’s Dail motion calling for a legal amnesty for those who have not paid their TV licence fee in the wake of controversies which were revealed last year, and for the abolition of the TV licence system.
Instead Sinn Fein is proposing a direct Exchequer-funded model.
Speaking in the Dail during Leaders’ Questions, Ms McDonald asked whether the Taoiseach plans to chase people through the courts for not paying their TV licence fee.
“Not one of the top brass at RTE have been held to account,” she said, arguing it is unfair to pursue members of the public for not paying the 160 euro fee.
Ms McDonald also accused Cabinet ministers of being divided on a new funding model for Ireland’s public service broadcaster.
Mr Bakhurst said he took legal advice and he cannot answer whether Richard Collins received an exit package or not after being quizzed by FF TD Christopher O’Sullivan.
Mr Bakhurst said Ms O’Keeffe revealed her exit package herself but it is not clear what he meant by this.
He declined to give details due to what he said were legal reasons.
“This will end up with another legal bill,” said Mr Bakhurst.
“RTÉ is not into breaking the law.”
Ms Cusack said she was assured “savings would be made” when she signed off on the €450,000 exit package for Ms O’Keeffe.
She said she could have “pushed back more” but said it did not “enter my head” to go to the RTÉ Board.
Mr O’Sullivan said the “level of scapegoating” of the RTÉ former executives who won’t come before Oireachtas committees is “extraordinary”.
Mr Bakhurst said “a number of people” have “paid the price” and said a number of people have been “exited from the organisation”.
He said “it would be great” if the former chair, if Ms O’Keefe and if the former DG were here to answer questions.
Ms O’Leary said Richard Collins gave information which was “wildly fanciful” when giving an estimated profit of €300,000 for the Toy Show The Musical.
Mr Bakhurst told SF TD Thomas Gould he would not receive exit packages if he was leaving one company to take a job in another.
He said if it is “finely balanced and best for the organisation” that sometimes certain people leave, then exit packages can be considered.
Mr Bakhurst said he has given the “one I can give you” in relation to Ms O’Keeffe’s €450,000 figure he revealed earlier.
He said the value of the exit payments will be in RTÉ accounts when they are published.
He also confirmed that former director general Dee Forbes resigned from RTÉ but did not receive an exit package.
The SF TD raised the issue of people being brought through courts for not paying the TV license.
FG Senator Micheál Carrigy also questioned Mr Lynch why he didn’t raise any issues around the Toy Show The Musical in previous committee meetings. Mr Lynch said he wasn’t asked about it.
Mr Carrigy then asked if Ms O’Leary would take “responsibility” for what he called the “Toy Show fiasco”.
He said it is “very easy to blame the people that aren’t here”. Ms O’Leary said she takes responsibility for the “operation of the audit and risk [committee]”.
Mr Bakhurst said producers who worked on the musical were “seconded” from another part of RTÉ and he said he wasn’t sure if they were paid. He said RTÉ would respond in writing.
Ms Cusack said she “trusted” and did not think about going over “her head” to the RTÉ Board in reference to then director general Dee Forbes.
Mr Bakhurst said: “This could not happen now. We have new procedures.”
He said conversations happened “offline” without full information given to the RTÉ executive team or the Board.
Ms Cusack said RTÉ will bear the cost of tax issues resulting from the exit payments.
She said people were “released” on voluntary exit packages on the basis that their “roles would be suppressed”.
Ms Cusack said she also signed off on Mr Coveney’s exit package.
Mr Bakhurst declined to identify which executives who have left have not received the exit payments.
Mr Dillon asked the DG if he has considered reporting any issues to the Office of Corporate Enforcement or the Gardaí.
“My advice is that no laws were broken,” said Mr Bakhurst.
Mr Bakhurst revealed Ms O’Keefe was paid €450,000 as an exit package - €50,000 greater than was expected.
Mr Bakhurst said he didn’t know Ms O’Keefe took an exit package until she said it at an Oireachtas Committee. He said he went “straight” to Eimear Cusack, the head of HR and she “gave the details”.
He said he couldn’t say what the package is worth in initial exchanges with Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon, saying it was "confidential".
“We have had significant legal pressure over months to get this report out and to deal with this issue,” said Mr Bakhurst.”
“There is a legal threat over this.
“Breda O’Keefe was paid €450,000 to leave," Mr Bakhurst eventually disclosed, to audible gasps from members of the committee.
Kevin Bakhurst revealed to the committee that there was an “exit package” for Rory Coveney but said he has received legal advice and declined to go into much further detail.
Mr Bakhurst said Mr Coveney decided his position was “not tenable” in the summer. He has since resigned. Mr Coveney was described as "leading the project" of the €2.3m loss-making musical before his departure.
“Given what I knew then, which was only a few days after I started the job, I thought it was the right thing [for Mr Coveney to resign,” he said.
FF Senator Shane Cassells said questions were put to RTÉ at the Media Committee last year “about the disaster of this show” and he asked Adrian Lynch why he “didn’t say a word”.
“Already it was quite evident that it was going to be a financial disaster,” said Mr Cassells.
Mr Lynch said he doesn’t remember the questions asked but said he would have had “no problem” giving information.
Mr Cassells said he was “bullish” to the Committee.
Mr Cassells quoted Mr Coveney in a previous committee meeting, who said he was “very proud” of the Toy Show.
Mr Lynch said Mr Coveney was “leading the project and answered the questions”.
He said he “learned quite a lot” from the Grant Thornton report.
Mr Lynch said there was no discussion about a strategy in relation to the musical. He said if he had been asked questions at the committee, he would have answered them.
Mr Cassells asked if the Convention Centre received a “flat fee” or if there was a “percentage fee”. Nobody was able to answer.
Mr Bakhurst could not give “assurances” that no more of Montrose land will be sold. He said there are four or five listed buildings which need investment by 2030.
He said this will cost “tens of millions across the site”.
He said on the Radio Centre or other “listed buildings”, RTÉ needs to look at what are the “best options”.
SF Senator Fintan Warfield raised the issue of TV license reform. He said how Government TDs rush to do TV interviews when any RTÉ scandal is in the news as it distracts from the usual issues around the housing crisis and health.
Senator Byrne quipped how Sinn Féin have a Dáil motion about scrapping the TV license this week.
Mr Bakhurst said reform is a decision for the Oireachtas and not RTÉ. However, it is understood RTÉ is in favour of Revenue collecting the TV license.
He said RTÉ will be spending more money on independent productions.
Labour Senator Marie Sherlock asked if RTÉ should be competing with other musicals.
Mr Bakhurst praised the RTÉ orchestra but said he "very much doubts" if anything like Toy Show The Musical will be commissioned "during my tenure, however long that lasts".
Ms Cusack said the criteria for a voluntary exit payment was “very broad” in 2017 but not in 2021.
She said she was “promised” that savings would be achieved but wasn’t told how this would be done.
“In hindsight, I should have pushed back harder. I didn’t, I took the word of the director general,” she said.
Mr Bakhurst said “there were some savings around the department” but said the “proper process wasn’t followed”.
Deputy McGrath tells Mr Bakhurst Revenue is treating RTÉ as a “sacred cow” when it comes to bogus self employment issues, which date back to the 1980s.
Mr Bakhurst denies this.
Mr McGrath says “nobody was doing their job” in relation to auditors Deloitte but Ms O’Leary denies this.
The TD then ends his contribution with a line which was misunderstood in a previous committee meeting: “Who are you loyal to?”
In a previous meeting RTÉ executives and TDs misunderstood this question to be as “Who are you lying to?”.
Around €200,000 has been set aside by RTÉ for potential Revenue liabilities, the committee is told.
Independent TD Mattie McGrath tells the committee Ms O’Keefe declined to come to today’s committee meeting “due to stress”. He also listed all the other witnesses who declined to come in, including Ms Forbes.
Ms Anne O’Leary said she feels “completely betrayed”.
“There was a robust process in place,” she said. She said she was “used to it and trusted it”.
“I assumed that they were careful executives that they would do their job".
Former CFO Ms Breda O’Keefe sent a legal letter to Mr Bakhurst yesterday, outlining a number of things she wants him to say at today’s Media Committee.
However, Ms O’Keefe refused a request to come before the committee this afternoon.
“I even got a letter, as of yesterday evening, from the solicitors of the previous CFO, setting out a range of things she would like me to say in Committee," Mr Bakhurst said.
“The response was, 'you are invited, you can come and say them yourself'.
“It would be great if she did,” said Mr Bakhurst.
Senator Malcolm Byrne said that Ms O’Keefe’s predecessor left on a redundancy package and so did Ms O’Keefe.
Mr Bakhurst said it is “concerning” how Ms O’Keefe’s package was signed off. He said he is “fairly outraged” about it myself.
“I think it is outrageous,” he said.
He said RTÉ has faced “very significant legal challenges”, over exit packages.
Ms Munster said the “lack of oversight” and “pressing questions”, the project cost €2.2m to the taxpayer “under your watch”. Ms O’Leary said there was a “rigorous process” on how projects get approval for funding within RTÉ.
Ms O’Leary said Rory Coveney and Dee Forbes “deliberately circumvented” that process.
She said she was told by Richard Collins that the production would make €300,000.
Mr Bakhurst said he cannot give a “categorical guarantee” but tells FF Senator Malcolm Byrne that there are no other looming scandals.
Ms Cusack said she does not “shirk” responsibility and said signing off on the voluntary exit package for Ms O’Keefe was an “error”.
Ms Munster said “people [at RTÉ] are never held accountable”.
Mr Bakhurst said Ms Cusack is “extremely good at HR”.
“It was seeing a wrong and not putting it right,” said Ms Munster.
Ms Anne O’Leary said she asked about the Toy Show Musical, asking why the Convention Centre was used and not a venue like the Gaiety.
She also asked about financial model, risk analysis and a “full briefing document”. She said it “never” came to the Audit and Risk Committee, which she chairs.
Deputy Munster then asks Mr Bakhurst what he “thinks of that” and that a member of his executive did not do her job and is still in her position and was “complicit in this all the way along”.
“Eimear recognises that she did question it, she probably should have questioned it more,” he said.
“I think Eimear recognises that this shouldn’t have happened.”
He said “this is the way RTÉ was run” at the time.
