RTÉ board grilled by Oireachtas media committee over Toy Show the Musical debacle

Around €200,000 has been set aside by RTÉ for potential Revenue liabilities, the committee is told.

Independent TD Mattie McGrath tells the committee Ms O’Keefe declined to come to today’s committee meeting “due to stress”. He also listed all the other witnesses who declined to come in, including Ms Forbes.

Ms Anne O’Leary said she feels “completely betrayed”.

“There was a robust process in place,” she said. She said she was “used to it and trusted it”.

“I assumed that they were careful executives that they would do their job".

Former CFO Ms Breda O’Keefe sent a legal letter to Mr Bakhurst yesterday, outlining a number of things she wants him to say at today’s Media Committee.

However, Ms O’Keefe refused a request to come before the committee this afternoon.

“I even got a letter, as of yesterday evening, from the solicitors of the previous CFO, setting out a range of things she would like me to say in Committee," Mr Bakhurst said.

“The response was, 'you are invited, you can come and say them yourself'.

“It would be great if she did,” said Mr Bakhurst.

Senator Malcolm Byrne said that Ms O’Keefe’s predecessor left on a redundancy package and so did Ms O’Keefe.

Mr Bakhurst said Richard Collins did not receive a voluntary exit package and he said it is “concerning” how Ms O’Keefe’s package was signed off. He said he is “fairly outraged” about it myself.

“I think it is outrageous,” he said.

He said RTÉ has faced “very significant legal challenges”, he said.

Ms Munster said the “lack of oversight” and “pressing questions”, the project cost €2.2m to the taxpayer “under your watch”. Ms O’Leary said there was a “rigorous process” on how projects get approval for funding within RTÉ.

Ms O’Leary said Rory Coveney and Dee Forbes “deliberately circumvented” that process.

She said she was told by Richard Collins that the production would make €300,000.

Mr Bakhurst said he cannot give a “categorical guarantee” but tells FF Senator Malcolm Byrne that there are no other looming scandals.

Ms Cusack said she does not “shirk” responsibility and said signing off on the voluntary exit package for Ms O’Keefe was an “error”.

Ms Munster said “people [at RTÉ] are never held accountable”.

Mr Bakhurst said Ms Cusack is “extremely good at HR”.

“It was seeing a wrong and not putting it right,” said Ms Munster.

Ms Anne O’Leary said she asked about the Toy Show Musical, asking why the Convention Centre was used and not a venue like the Gaiety.

She also asked about financial model, risk analysis and a “full briefing document”. She said it “never” came to the Audit and Risk Committee, which she chairs.

Deputy Munster then asks Mr Bakhurst what he “thinks of that” and that a member of his executive did not do her job and is still in her position and was “complicit in this all the way along”.

“Eimear recognises that she did question it, she probably should have questioned it more,” he said.

“I think Eimear recognises that this shouldn’t have happened.”

He said “this is the way RTÉ was run” at the time.

SF TD Imelda Munster raises exit packages and asks Ms Cusack if she raised former CFO Breda O’Keefe’s voluntary redundancy payment with “management”.

“The assurance I was given was that the cost savings would be achieved,” said Ms Cusack.

“I signed off on an instruction [from former DG Dee Forbes].”

Ms Munster said she knew there was “something wrong with that instruction” but she signed off on the exit package anyway.

“The rule that was broken was that the DG did not bring it to the Executive,” said Ms Cusack. She said 203 people went through the “proper process”.

Ms Munster said that if Ms Cusack was “doing her job as director of HR” she wouldn’t have signed off on the package.

“At no stage did you intervene as head of HR at no stage did you speak and say something is wrong,” Ms Munster said. She asked Ms Cusack if she was “afraid” of Ms Forbes and if she was afraid to question her.

“I wasn’t afraid of Dee Forbes,” said Ms Cusack.

Director General Kevin Bakhurst said because of “constant scandal” he said it would be “inappropriate” to keep up external adverts encouraging people to pay for the TV license.

He said €200,000 was paid for external TV license advertising outside of RTÉ.

“We were looking at stopping discretionary spending,” he said.

He said he thought it would be “tone deaf” to “chase” taxpayers to pay their TV license “while the scandal was unfolding”.

“I was trying to be respectful to the audience at that stage, demanding they pay the license fee.”

He said RTÉ had discussions with the Department of Media and An Post.

Mr Griffin said it was an “incredible decision” and clashed with Mr Bakhurst over not telling the Committee that this funding was being pulled.

On the Toy Show Musical, Deputy Griffin refers to the report and says it shows there was “nothing” in meeting minutes February 23 to July 23 on the musical.

Ms Ní Raghallaigh said the board did not have the “full facts” then.

He asked Board members who were there at the time of the musical if anybody asked about ticket sales.

Board member Daire Hickey said he emailed Rory Coveney and asked about financials. They were sent ahead of a later Board meeting, after tickets went on sale and he was told sales were good. Mr Coveney later said the “summer was slow” for sales.

He said they were told on October 27 that the project was going “very well” and it wouldn’t be until December that this position changed.

Adrian Lynch said there is a “history” of RTÉ doing live events - last week 4,000 tickets were sold for a folk orchestra.

Deputy Brendan Griffin begins his questioning by saying that it is "not good enough" that so many former RTÉ board members did not attend today.

He said that while the health reasons for some attending were noted, the fact that "so many" did not or would not come here today should be "looked into further".

In her opening statement, RTÉ board chairperson Siún Ní Raghallaigh says the board take full responsibility for the "debacle" that was Toy Show the Musical and acknowledged expenditure on the project was not monitored closely enough by the board.

She says such a situation cannot be "allowed to happen again".

Appearing before the Oireachtas Media Committee today on behalf of the RTÉ board for questioning are: Director General Kevin Bakhurst; chairperson Siún Ní Raghallaigh; Adrian Lynch; Anne O'Leary; Daire Hickey; Eimear Cusack, who are all RTÉ board members.

SF TD Chris Andrews has excused himself from the meeting and will be replaced by party colleague Thomas Ghould. Previously, Mr Andrews excused himself from other RTÉ committee hearings as he is related to presenter Ryan Tubridy.