Micheál Martin says that protestors who heckled him in Cork ‘crossed the line’

He said Ireland shouldn’t be “squeamish” about participation in Pesco initiatives and said universities now are “shying” away from debate because they are fearful of disruption from similar protests.

He said he anticipated there would be a form of protest at the event and said protesters, who said they were from the Connolly Youth Movement, were making comments which were “not evidence based”.

“There’s nothing new here,” the Foreign Affairs minister said.

“I always remember Mick Barry [TD] when he came into the Dáil saying that he was more of the Paris view that the street would be there to take over the Parliament - not to take over but to rival the parliament in terms of how democracy works.

“I think a lot of what was being said was incoherent, quite frankly, and not evidence based,” he said.

“I sometimes think a lot of what is said and even what was said at the protest and so on, doesn’t tally with the reality of how Irish foreign policy is conducted.”

When asked if the protestors crossed the line, he said: “Yes.”

He said they want to “just make statements and not allow the forum to develop” and should have instead stayed and put questions to the chairperson afterwards.

The minister said he is being “transparent” in participation in Pesco initiatives, such as maritime surveillance, cyber security or airlift.

Frontline clinicians couldn’t get access to x-rays during the cyber attack, he said, which led to a “very, very scary time”.

“We shouldn’t be squeamish about these issues, we shouldn’t be, sort of, afraid to even mention our participation in these issues,” he said.

“There is that tendency in Irish debate which we saw to a degree in the protest this morning, that you dare not even talk about these things. And if you even reference these things, you’re going off on a desperate journey to join Nato. That’s not the case,” he said.

Minister Martin recalled back to his own time in University College Cork (UCC), where the forums are being held, where there were “excited” debates.

“Many third level institutions are now shying away from debate because they’re afraid of this kind of thing, they’re afraid of disruption, of trouble in the campus. So better that we don’t have any debates.

“I worry about the campuses of today and the future. In my day, we had excited debates, angry debates on the campus. But they were debates. In the modern era, there’s a tendency that in order to avoid any potential trouble or disruption, let’s not have any debate.”

He said “good evidence based inquiry” leads to “good solid debates”.

Earlier today, there were chaotic scenes at the Government’s forum on neutrality as Mr Martin’s opening address was disrupted by anti-NATO protestors.

A row broke out at University College Cork between the Foreign Affairs minister and demonstrators, a number of which were some minutes later removed by gardaí.

Protestors holding a large “NATO wars millions dead” flag stood up and began talking as soon as the Tánaiste took to the stage to make his opening address.

The protest began as soon as Minister Martin began his opening address at the forum, which has been criticised by a number of left-wing politicians as well as President Michael D Higgins.

Mr Martin attempted several times to resume his speech but was unable to do so.

“You should be ashamed of yourself,” protestors heckled loudly.

They spoke about Afghanistan and accused a lecturer at the college of taking “blood money from a NATO fellow”.

“These forums are filled to the gills with propagandists for EU militarisation and closer alignment with NATO,” said one of the protestors.

They also hit out at Mr Martin calling himself a republican.

“Shame on you!”

Mr Martin then became visibly annoyed, telling protestors they were disrupting debate.

“The most undemocratic thing to do is to try and shut down debate and that’s what you’re trying to do,” he told the demonstrators.

“Your thing is, debate on your terms and on nobody else’s.”

Five protestors were then some time later taken away by gardaí.

He then continued his address.

However, interruptions continued even after the protestors were taken away, with a number of other audience members standing up during the speech and loudly criticising Mr Martin and the Irish government.

Chair of the forum Dame Louise Richardson had not started speaking after the Tanaiste when she was disrupted by a protestor who had stood up and loudly began criticising the forum.

An Rabharta Glas Councillor, formerly of the Green Party, Lorna Bogue also stood up during Dame Richardson’s opening address and criticised the forum.

She said there were no opposition politicians invited to the event.

This is despite Sinn Féin and Independent TDs and Senators being sat in the audience.

She was then escorted out of the theatre.

Separately, “old baldies and grey heads” are tut-tutting at young people who protested at the UCC security forum and who were “pushed and dragged” to the exit by the gardaí, a Socialist TD has told the Dáil.

But Minister Michael McGrath told Mick Barry of People Before Profit that he assumed he wouldn’t be looking for votes next time out from oldies and baldies. He said he didn’t know why the Deputy had made such a disparaging remark.

Mr Barry saluted the protesters who harangued Tánaiste Micheal Martin in University College Cork this morning at the opening of the forum to explore defence and neutrality.

He said: “Only one speaker out of 80 at this forum is from Generation Z – and despite the tut-tutting in Dáil corridors from old baldies and grey heads, young people’s voices will be heard.

“I see the Tánaiste is saying that their arguments were incoherent and not evidence-based. Well, I look at the words on their banner: ‘NATO wars, millions dead.’ I think there's a lot of evidence for that.

“There are five speakers at this forum who are pro-NATO or pro-EU militarisation for every one against Yes, there is a debate going on there. But it's not a debate about whether to join the rush to militarise, it's about how we deal with and how fast we do it.

“It's rigged. It's stacked. It's not a real debate. I'm confident the Irish people will be a little bit wiser for what's going on.”

Finance Minister Michael McGrath replied: “Did you refer to baldies and grey heads?

“Do I take it you won't be canvassing for support from any bald person or any grey person in Cork North Central in the next election?

“I don't know why you felt the need to throw in a disparaging remark like that -- and I'm sure the people that description might relate to will remember exactly what you said.”

An irked Mr Barry replied: “My voters, Minister, do not tut-tut young people.”

Mr McGrath said the remark was “petty and unnecessary.”

He added: “I don't know what you have against debate. This is an opportunity for civil society to have a debate on what is a really important issue -- not just for Ireland, but for every country in the world.

“It is not rigged. It is not stacked. And we have been very clear that there is no intention of changing Ireland's position on military neutrality.”