Deadspin presents: The Great Debates tournament

For some the choice is obvious, for others it’s the type of sports debate that makes you feel like your T.V. is slapping you in the head at 10 a.m. Whether you hate or love this classic, it will make you feel something.

Michael Jordan is the face of the modern NBA. He took the interest that Magic Johnson and Larry Bird injected into the league in the early 80s and used it to build the first athlete economic empire. The NBA was selling its individual stars to market the games so Jordan’s agent — David Faulk — took it one step further with his client. He wanted Nike to market Jordan like a tennis star. Like a singular athlete.

LeBron James had seen the success of this his whole life and set a plan into action early. He signed a $90 million deal with Nike before he signed with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Since then, James has started a fast-food pizza restaurant and also owns a production company that remade both Space Jam and the early 1990s classic House Party.

These two are true A-list celebrities. Not just sports famous, but pop culture icons like Michael Jackson, Eddie Murphy, Jack Nicholson, etc. Also one has the highest points per game average in NBA history and the other holds the record for total points scored.

- Stephen Knox

Those first few months of the pandemic. At first, we Americans thought COVID-19 was Bird Flu or Swine Flu but it turned out to be something far more destructive. Something so destructive that when Americans shared video of the people of Italy singing to each other while confined to their homes, we had no idea that was our near and immediate future.

By mid-March, unless people were buying food, it was considered best that they stay in their homes. Unprecedented. It had been more than 100 years since America had dealt with a mass contagion that threatened everyone’s lives.

So of course we turned to television. It has always served as a pleasant distraction, and we needed something on it with no signs of new content on the way. The Tiger King could not have come around at a better time.

It was released on March 20, 2020. That was nine days after Rudy Gobert and Tom Hanks’ sicknesses stopped America. We got to indulge in some Jerry Springer-level dysfunction to ease us into lockdown. Joe Exotic, Carole Baskin, and Doc Antle were reminders that as bad as life can get, at least viewers weren’t them.

Then ESPN pushed up the airing of its 10-part documentary about Michael Jordan and the 1990s Bulls from summer to spring. The Last Dance aired two parts at a time. The original purpose was to present Gen Z Jordan’s greatness. It later became therapeutic as we could watch it live as a community while on lockdown.

These two documentaries took us from that March realization that a pandemic was really upon us, all the way until mid-May.

- Stephen Knox

This should really be Tom Brady versus the field because he has no peers whether it be statistical or team success. Yet for a time there, Manning felt like the better quarterback because he was the team. The Colts went how Peyton went, but the Patriots could survive a subpar outing by Brady. We eventually realized that a lot of those below-average box scores were a product of Bill Belichick’s game plan. New England never cared about aesthetics as long as they won.

If Manning wasn’t humming, it was difficult for Indianapolis to compete.

That doesn’t all fall on Peyton though, and if we were to resurrect this debate, which is what we’re doing, coaching played a huge part. Tony Dungy has aged about as well as a transphobic cantaloupe while Belichick is still drawing up stifling defenses.

All things considered, Brady passed Manning, in my opinion, because he perfected the chess match at the line, the one that Manning invented. And that’s some Super Skrull, T-1000-level shit. He absorbed Manning’s trick like a shot of botox and built on it.

-Sean Beckwith

Both coaches have won many Super Bowls, and are the standard bearers for their era.

But who actually accomplished the most? Bill Walsh won three Super Bowls from 1981-1988, and after the third, he stepped down as head coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Bill Belichick won three Super Bowls in his first five seasons as the New England Patriots’ head coach and would go on to win three more from 2014-2018. He also has only missed the playoffs four times in 23 seasons with that franchise.

Walsh missed the playoffs three times with the 49ers in 12 seasons as their head coach. When it comes to wins he cannot be compared with Belichick. However, influence is where he has a significant edge.

George Seifert, Mike Holmgren, Dennis Green, and Ray Rhodes all coached under him, and as head coaches, all of them had postseason success. Seifert won a Super Bowl as did Holmgren, who spawned off another tree of successful coaches. One such example is Andy Reid, Super Bowl-winning coach.

Belichick’s former assistants have not delivered in the same way. Only Mike Vrabel has been widely regarded as a strong head coach, and outside of Bill O’Brien running his fiefdom into the ground in Houston, Belichick’s guys have largely been a disappointment.

So who really is the best? The coach who is hanging on and still competitive, or the one who left early and has students who learned from his students crushing the NFL.

- Stephen Knox

These are two forces that the world of boxing had not seen before or since. The time in their careers when they were most dominant was short-lived, but that handful of years left a mark by which boxers are still measured.

Muhammed Ali and Mike Tyson were heavyweight boxers. This is a division in which ferocious punishment is both endured and delivered. These large men swing as hard as they can at each other. Yet, in their prime neither fighter took much damage.

Ali had near ballet movement in the ring in the 1960s. At 200-plus pounds, no one was able to close in on him. For those who believe he didn’t have power, the men he knocked out that decade might have a different opinion.

When Ali first beat Sonny Liston in 1964, he took the Heavyweight Championship from him. Sonny Liston was the baddest man on the planet and didn’t come out for the seventh round. Until Ali was stripped of his title for refusing to serve in the Vietnam War over religious objections, of his nine title defenses only two went to decision.

Tyson bulldozed his way through the heavyweight division in the mid-1980s. He was quite possibly the scariest man alive because he was knocking people out before a bag of popcorn could be popped. Fame and ego took Tyson’s Heavyweight Championship as opposed to a military draft, but at his best, his hands were real weapons.

In 11 Heavyweight title defenses — one of course the loss to Buster Douglas — only three of his victories lasted longer than six rounds. At only 5 foot 10, Tyson turned the heavyweight division into heavy bags.

At their peak, Ali and Tyson were the two best to ever put on the gloves and boots.

- Stephen Knox

This debate has current, significant conflict. Lamar Jackson is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and the Baltimore Ravens don’t want to give him the money that he wants.

Maybe that money is a fully guaranteed contract. The Cleveland Browns signed Deshaun Watson to one that put all NFL franchises in a bad position. The Green Bay Packers, Denver Broncos, and Arizona Cardinals were able to sign quarterbacks without fully guaranteed contracts last offseason.

Jackson is arguably better than all of these quarterbacks, and most certainly an upgrade from Watson. The only number that has been reported for Jackson is the five-year $250 million — $133 million guaranteed — from last season. However, to take that report as fact is to also give credence to Jackson not wanting to sign for less than a fully guaranteed deal.

This is the 2019 NFL MVP. The last player to win that award is not named Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes. Every NFL quarterback who has signed an extension since 2020 cannot claim what Jackson can.

But here he is. Available on the non-exclusive franchise tag after a second consecutive season ended prematurely by injury. However, the main reason that the Ravens were viable for the playoffs in both seasons is due to Jackson’s efforts.

- Stephen Knox

In Tim Tebow’s one extended stint as an NFL starting quarterback, a look at the statistics could reasonably lead a person to believe that he was a terrible professional football player.

Tebow started 11 games in 2011 and completed only 46.5 percent of his passes. He didn’t throw many interceptions, but he did fumble the ball 13 times. Only twice that season did Tebow complete more than 50 percent of his passes in a game.

However, the Denver Broncos went on a winning streak with Tebow. A winning streak that resulted in them making the postseason even though they started the season 1-5 with Kyle Orton as their starter. The Broncos went on to win seven of their next eight games, and defeat the Pittsburgh Steelers at home during an overtime Wild Card Weekend matchup.

Tebow started two games for the New York Jets in 2012 and he never again saw the field in a regular-season game. He went on to play minor-league baseball for the New York Mets and even signed on with the Jacksonville Jaguars to play tight end prior to their disaster of a 2021 franchise.

So what happened in Denver in 2011? Did Tebow’s moxie take them to the playoffs, or was it a combination of their great defense and a weak schedule?

- Stephen Knox

I have no idea when this narrative picked up steam. Aaron Rodgers is a great quarterback. He has all the tools and a flamethrower of an arm. I know we don’t like to compare guys who’ve won Super Bowls to those who have not, but hear me out.

Rodgers is a modern-day Dan Marino. Both went to Super Bowls early in their careers, routinely put the fear of god in their divisional opponents, amassed gaudy numbers, and haven’t had playoff success on par with the praise they received. Just because Cris Collinsworth has an on-air orgasm every time A-Rodg completes a 15-yard out route doesn’t mean he’s on Tom Brady or Joe Montana’s level. It’ll be interesting to see how fierce the Rodgers’ zealots remain once he moves to New York and gets dismantled by Bill Belichick twice a year.

- Sean Beckwith

Before Michael Jordan and LeBron James, the most common greatest athlete argument was The Great Bambino and The Say Hey Kid.

Babe Ruth was the original Shohei Ohtani. Ruth began his career as a pitcher. He didn’t record even 100 at-bats until his third season with the Boston Red Sox. That was 1916 when he won 23 games with a 1.75 ERA. Four seasons later he pitched one game for the New York Yankees and hit 54 home runs.

Willie Mays came up through the Negro Leagues and was on the field for the New York Giants shortly after his 20th birthday. He spent much of the 1952 season and all of 1953 serving in the Korean War. Mays returned to the field in 1954, hit 41 home runs, and won his first MVP. He would go on to win 12 consecutive Gold Glove Awards in center field and hit 660 home runs.

Depending on who you talk to, a person might say that if Mays hadn’t been drafted into the United States Army, he would’ve broken Babe Ruth’s record long before Hank Aaron and later his godson — Barry Bonds.

Mays was never an MLB pitcher. Ruth never played in an integrated league. Two of the best, and people of a certain age will argue all night about which one was better.

- Stephen Knox

Two 10-time Golden Glove Award-winning center fielders. One of the defensive positions where players are allowed to call off their teammates to make a play on the ball. Few have held down that spot better than Ken Griffey Jr. and Andruw Jones.

Griffey’s play in center field is the reason an argument can be made that he was a better baseball player than Barry Bonds in the 1990s. While Griffey never gained entry into the 40-40 club, he was able to belt out 50-plus home runs while playing center field, as opposed to Bonds who was a Golden Glove-winning corner outfielder. However, for all of Griffey’s greatness, was he even the best center fielder of his era?

While Griffey was raking in American League Golden Glove Awards, Jones was doing the same in the National League. His defense was crucial for the Atlanta Braves to continue the run that began in 1991 and resulted in 14 consecutive division championships. Jones was drafted in 1996.

Griffey’s Gold Gloves were won in consecutive years from 1990-1999. His first was in his second season while Jones’ came in his third. He would also go on to win 10 in a row, and still put up some notable power-hitting numbers from center field.

According to Fangraphs, the fielding argument isn’t close. They considered Jones an elite center fielder in his prime and his first defensive dip in production resulted in him being merely very good. On the other hand, Griffey never reached Jones’ heights as a premier center fielder and fell much more precipitously from his defense peak.

So standard def baseball fans what do you believe? Are you swayed by data, or do you still regularly wear your hat backward because of Griffey?

- Stephen Knox

This back-and-forth always reminds me of Bradley Cooper and Christopher Walken playing football in Wedding Crashers. Walken’s character declares “Nature versus nurture. Nature… always wins,” and it’s hysterical because the entire family is built on nurture. What does Claire Cleary (Rachel McAdams) say? Everyone is always trying to suckle at her father’s power teat.

The entire Cleary family is cozying up for a turn on the power teat, and Walken mistakes it for nature when his nurturing is responsible for his children’s success. Cooper spear-tackling Vince Vaughn into the ground isn’t some form of Darwinism. Baba ganoush was throwing the game, and when it came down to brass tax, put Sack’s ass in the dirt. If this was at all comprehensible let me know. All I’m trying to get across is nature can’t succeed without nurturing and vice versa. It’s like asking a boxer’s preference between speed and power. The answer is a lot of both.

- Sean Beckwith

It’s easy to romanticize the past. Times were simpler, air was fresher, and sports were played by real men. Yes, can we please return to an era where point guards got dry-humped after stepping across half-court, Joe Theisman got crumpled into a heap of flesh and bone by Lawrence Taylor every other play, and pitchers threw curve balls until their arms fell off.

The last time two of my favorite teams were relevant was the ’90s, but I’ll be damned if I want to bring back the option, or 7-footers sweating all over each other, trying to see which team can make the most hook shots. Your dad, and, well, myself, might scream at the television when an edge rusher gets flagged for tackling a quarterback, and we overcorrect for past mistakes. Yet, give me high-octane offenses that put the best athletes in space as opposed to seeing what team can win a game of tug-of-war.

- Sean Beckwith

I’m not even Italian, and I have trouble picking between these two. This is a natural rivalry because of the genres they occupy, and the almost mystic aura around both appearing in scenes together. Godfather II is just two actors handing the Academy Award back and forth for three hours, with a masterclass of character acting from John Cazale sprinkled in.

We’ve seen Pacino and DeNiro spiral into madness in Scarface and Taxi Driver respectively, and each has an arthouse catalog, too. While DeNiro is better at comedic roles, Al’s unintentional comedy is through the roof. Pacino has more Oscar nominations (9 to 8), but DeNiro has one more statue (2 to 1). Also, the later work of each Hollywood legend seeps into caricatures, and that peaks in 2008’s Righteous Kill. It was overhyped specifically because they were sharing scenes in a movie, and it could not have been more forgettable.

I think DeNiro’s constant collaboration with Martin Scorsese gives him the edge in a lot of people’s minds because of those movies’ place in Hollywood lore. Yet I could be talked into Tony Montana and Michael Corleone. It’s very close, and that’s why it’s on here.

- Sean Beckwith

Your blood is thicker than water but both them thangs leak

~ Big K.R.I.T.

When the money was flowing, love was in abundance. New York City was the oyster of the Corleone family and Paul Cicero’s crew.

Michael Corleone stacked up a mass of bodies at the end of The Godfather to be the sun around which the organized crime solar system orbited in the second movie. Paulie didn’t operate the same way. Sure his goons will come and get you if necessary, but he would rather have you slammed against the front of a pizza oven to get his point across.

Once tough times hit, all of those family bonds went out the window. You get locked up in Pauile’s crew; he wants nothing to do with you until you get out. Henry Hill had to find alternate ways to feed his family.

Michael was as ruthless a competitor as Michael Jordan, but his sport was gangbanging. He was so single-minded and vicious that the man committed the second-oldest sin known to man. He went Cain to his brother’s Abel.

What strong family ties.

- Stephen Knox

The green bubble vs. the blue bubble.

Fashion dictates that anything a person walks out of the house with can be considered stylish if put together with intent and flaunted with confidence. However, there are usually some base requirements.

For a rapper in 2003, it meant wearing a jersey that extended to at least their mid-thigh. In the early 2010s, it meant the tighter the jeans the better for young people. Who cares if they want to procreate later in life?

Phones have been part of that as well, but in the aughts, it was mainly young people with their Razors and Sidekicks. Nowadays, an iPhone is almost considered as standard as a man wearing a tie to a business interview. How dare a group chat be besmirched with the site of that ugly green bubble. If you don’t have air pods, can you even hear?

For all of those white commas hanging out of people’s ears at the grocery store, there are still some people who are willing to part with standard formalities. They don’t need Facetime, iCloud, or a phone that slows down when a new version is released.

Samsung is on its 23rd Galaxy and the NBA is advertising the new Google Pixel 7 during every game, so there are still many Android users among the general population. Are those people tacky, or are they seeing with their third eye?

- Stephen Knox

This should really be Patrick Mahomes vs. the field, because Joe Burrow has reached a Super Bowl, and beaten both Josh Allen and Mahomes in the playoffs, but I digress. This argument is only going to age as well as Allen does, and he takes a lot more punishment than his peers by virtue of the QB run game. Mahomes has had a few injuries, yet those only served as evidence that he doesn’t need his legs to still be effective.

The Mahomes-Allen debate is a product of First Take needing to fill air time, and Twitter needing something to argue about. I’ll say this about Allen. He’s a lot better than I thought he’d be, and we should adjust our praise relative to where he started as opposed to a guy with two MVPs and two Super Bowls in his first five years as a starter.

- Sean Beckwith

Let’s be a little more creative than splitting this down the gender line. You know cat people, I know cat people, and there are certain people who are just cat people. But this isn’t about which version of crazy cat person or Best In Show dog obsessive is worse. It’s about the animals themselves.

The nicest dogs are as great as the nicest cats, and ditto for the worst dogs and worst cats. I just think your average run-of-the-mill (not puppy mill, please, responsible practices for both species) dog is better than an average cat. The upside of felines is less maintenance. You don’t have to walk them or make sure to let them out every so often. With dogs, you get to bring them outside and on camping trips and a lot of other places. (Probably too many, but again, let’s focus on the animals, not the terrible owners.)

I don’t know who prevails in cats versus dogs, but I do know who wins in journalists versus cats and/or dogs, so I am aware of just how pervasive this argument is.

- Sean Beckwith

This has only recently popped up because society has devalued competition. It’s all about getting your highlights off and getting out without an injury. Guys don’t even want to do the competition that’s designed specifically for them to showboat.

Whether it’s the Pro Bowl devolving into a flag football game, NBA All-Star Weekend being scrubbed of defense, the death of the dunk contest, or the Midsummer Showcase ending before extra innings, no fan base is happy. And that leads to everyone screaming at each other about it and debating how we can fix it. Money? Honor? Gimmicks? There is no shortage of ideas that will never happen or won’t fix it. Every asshole has one though, including me.

- Sean Beckwith

This is one of those arguments that happens naturally. Both bands jockeyed for supremacy largely in the same realm and had enough back-and-forths — perceived or real — for fans to pick a side. The Beatles were a lot like early Disney, with a wink and a nod to adults, while Mick Jagger made no bones about shoving his crotch in your face.

And the music reflects that. Gimme Shelter is a staple of Martin Scorsese movies, and there have been no fewer than three million Beatles songs and/or references in Wes Anderson’s filmography. The reason it’s such a timeless argument is that the bands themselves are. Though it’s impossible to argue who’s more resilient: Paul McCartney or Keith Richards’ liver.

- Sean Beckwith

Let’s be honest, the fact that this is still an argument nearly 30 years after Kurt Cobain’s death really speaks to just how badly Pearl Jam got washed by Nirvana. The most valid argument Eddie Vedder heads can make is Nirvana didn’t have another project planned at the time of Cobain’s suicide; just a collaboration between Cobain and REM headman Michael Stipe.

While Pearl Jam is still touring, so is Nirvana’s drummer. Dave Grohl had a whole second act as the Foo Fighters lead singer that arguably tops Vedder singing “Take Me Out to the Ballgame” at Wrigley Field. And really, anyone who aligns themselves with the Cubs is a loser.

- Sean Beckwith

Of all four major American sports, the Baseball Hall of Fame is the toughest to get into. It’s the one thing baseball still gets right. The voters haven’t acquiesced to the steroid era, and as long as Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and company aren’t in Cooperstown, there will be arguments about it.

There are so many players wrongly inducted, or omitted, that it’s always a touchy subject. And touchy subjects are the best subjects for getting pundits to yell at each other. There are arguments within arguments about how many votes a player received and what ballot he got in on. It’s something that certainly doesn’t happen with basketball because once Mitch Richmond got in, the entire HOF was devalued.

- Sean Beckwith

The differences between Cardinals fans and Cubs fans are vast. One group demands excellence, the other is fine showing up and getting shit-canned and sunburnt. One values postseason success, and the other literally LOVES losing. This isn’t about who’s the participation trophy of fan bases though. It’s about Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa.

The one thing that connects both those who adore the Red Birds or Cubbies (you can’t do both) was having to defend overtly juiced sluggers in the summer of 1998. You could argue which is better, but the real discussion revolved around what was ethical. In the end, both fell from grace (one harder than the other – I mean, what the hell, Sammy), but if you ask me, the guy who topped Roger Maris’ mark first won the home run race and subsequently the debate.

- Sean Beckwith

In 1984 a person’s answer to this question likely depended on pigmentation. If Bruce Springsteen made you want to shake your booty you were likely a Larry Bird fan. For those who preferred Rick James, Magic Johnson was probably the player for you.

Both are two of the best players in the history of the NBA. There were similarities in their basketball strengths, but they did not play the same way.

Bird was the prototype for the modern NBA forward. Give him a crack of daylight and that jump shot is falling right out of the bottom of the net. However, if the defense cheated to close in on him, he can flick a pass over an opposing player’s head or around their back for a quick assist. He was tenacious on the glass as well, averaging 10 rebounds a game for his career. Bird would also hit the ground like Dennis Rodman for a loose ball.

Johnson combined power and speed at guard in a way that the NBA had never seen, and wouldn’t again for some time. At 6 foot 9, Johnson had the Lakers’ offense rolling at a 100-meter-dash pace from the opening tip to the final buzzer. He bullied smaller players and dribbled by bigger ones. Johnson’s priority was to find the open man, but as strange as his shoulder heave of a jump shot looked, it worked. Bird never attempted 3.5 threes per game, but Johnson did once and made 38.4 percent of them.

They not only ruled the NBA for most of the 1980s but globalized a sport that televised the NBA Finals on tape delay the year that they were drafted.

- Stephen Knox

There is probably no athlete from the black-and-white era of television that holds as much current cache as Jim Brown. There are people who swear he is the best NFL player of all time that never saw him break a tackle. People born after white America felt like they had lemon juice shot into their eyes with a Super Soaker while watching his love-making scene with Raquel Welch don’t even know.

The numbers are breathtaking. During the first four seasons of his career, the NFL regular season was only 12 games and was never longer than 14. He still ran for 12,312 yards in nine seasons and averaged 5.2 yards per carry.

Jim Brown was one of one, and decades ahead of his time, but was he too far ahead of his time? Brown was bigger than some of the best defensive linemen in the game at that time. Think Adrian Peterson playing football in 1958.

- Stephen Knox

Did Survivor Series 1997 have to go down that way?

Bret Hart was on his way out of the WWF but was still the world champion. He had to relinquish the belt before bolting for WCW. Nothing could have been worse during the Monday Night Wars for WWF than Hart showing up on Nitro with its World Championship belt.

Taking the Wrestling with Shadows documentary’s word for it, Hart would never have left for WCW with the belt. He was willing to relinquish it but on his terms since he had reasonable creative control over the final days of his contract. Hart certainly didn’t want to lose in Canada to Shawn Michaels after an anti-Canadian storyline that the WWF had been building for months alongside Hart’s anti-American one.

However, a payoff like that is how pro wrestling works. The fans get riled up about the over-the-top storylines and performances, and there is eventually a payoff. There was no better payoff for WWF fans than Hart losing the title in Canada to Michaels before he left for WCW.

Hart didn’t want to do it. He instead agreed to a disqualification that allowed him to keep the belt and then cede it to the company on Monday Night Raw.

Vince McMahon didn’t find that satisfactory even though he agreed to it — per the surreptitiously recorded conversation he had with Hart in the documentary. Instead, McMahon ordered the bell to be rung and the belt was given to Michaels. Hart spit in the face of McMahon, who was standing ringside, then later punched him in the face backstage. And with that, the Attitude era was off and running.

- Stephen Knox

Whenever we’re talking about D-Generation X against the New World Order, we’ve got to keep in mind that both groups are offshoots of a behind-the-scenes faction in WWE (WWF at the time) known as The Kliq.

When Kliq members Scott Hall and Kevin Nash departed Vince McMahon’s organization to start the NWO in the spring of 1996, it set in motion the largest boom period in the history of professional wrestling. By the end of that summer Hall, Nash, and Hulk Hogan were the hottest things in the industry and threatened to put the WWF out of commission.

It wasn’t until over a year later when the remaining Kliq members still working for McMahon would introduce DX. The founders, Shawn Michaels and Triple H, were joined in the fall of ’97 by Chyna and Rick Rude to form the original D-Generation X. What started as a vehicle to enhance Michaels’ latest heel turn became something that’s been able to withstand the test of time in WWE.

Even after Michaels left in early ’98 due to a back injury and other offscreen issues, HHH took over as leader, adding new members and becoming one of the catalysts of the WWE’s Attitude Era. The DX crotch chop became a part of pop culture the same way the Wolfpac symbol has, and both groups get credit.

It really comes down to preference, like anything else. But the original usually gets the nod in an argument like this. The NWO came along first, although inspired by their backstage relationship with the other group. Fans never officially got the NWO vs. DX match other than a run-in at Wrestlemania 31. Like Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James, this battle will continue forever in the minds of pro wrestling fans.

Too sweeeet!

- Criss Partee

When Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston collaborated in 1998, tectonic plates shifted in the music industry. It was like LeBron James and Dwayne Wade joining forces 12 years before The Decision, but this joining of forces was applauded.

These two pop-music divas with voices a mix of both a high-caliber ballistic and babbling brook were the singers of the 1990s. Houston owned the second half of the 1980s, but from the moment that Carey made her national television debut on The Arsenio Hall Show in 1990, Houston had competition for the title.

The success of these two led to much fodder for the tabloids. It was entertaining for the public and led to one of the greatest award show moments in history when they showed up to the 1998 MTV Video Music Awards wearing the exact same dress.

Then in 1999, they performed the duet they recorded for The Prince of Egypt at the Oscars.

That performance was the apex of their run. There is great sadness in their stories after the turn of the millennium — R.I.P. to Houston. However, for the entire decade of the 90s, these two were at the top of the music industry and pop culture.

- Stephen Knox

Rings culture has already decided this battle, but at the moment — which was when I was between 5- and 10 years old — both Dan Marino and Joe Montana were Paul Bunyan-type figures. Again, it could be that I was young and all football players felt like urban legends. Montana and the San Francisco 49ers pummeled everybody on their way to Super Bowl titles, and Marino was in Ace Ventura and Bad Boys II.

For those who lived through it, I imagine it was a prequel to Tom Brady vs. Peyton Manning, only if Peyton never won a Super Bowl. Coincidentally, Bill Belichick was so much like Bill Walsh, from a football genius standpoint, that they’re matched up in this very bracket.

Shameless plugs aside, there were no hair plugs needed between Montana and Marino, and the only real argument when it was all said and retired was whose hair was more feathered and more lethal.

- Sean Beckwith

If you were to write a soap opera about professional sports, these two shouting heads would be your protagonists. They can milk any mundane storyline for drama and can deftly insert themselves into the storyline without a degree of shame. At one point, they were the tag team champions of sports shouting. Today they shout at new sidekicks, hoping the other will hear them from across the country. Sometimes they even take aim at one another. Their ability to garner attention over their perspectives on the same five topics, Cowboys, Lakers, Knicks, Russell Westbrook, and Kyrie Irving are awe-inspiring.

Your preference for Stephen A or Skip’s inflated egos says something about you though. Swill their shows around on a Monday morning and determine which one you detest listening to the most. Skip is more of a whinier brand of sports shouting, and Stephen A is a toxic bravado. Skip is a classic cyberbully. Stephen A is the obnoxious D-List celebrity who thinks he’s a headliner. The correct choice is neither.

- D.J. Dunson

This is an evergreen sports debate because there’s no definitive answer to the debate. If a team comes off of a lengthy lull between playoff rounds, and plays well, the story is one of a fresh, well-rested team that quickly took care of business and was able to get their bodies right. But if they start slow and look sloppy with turnovers or execution, the script flips to the layoffs between series, and the postseason in general is too long. The league has failed by letting down one of the prohibitive favorites, and it’s bad for business and a disservice to the sport.

Your personal stance — not on rest or rust, but rather how well you tolerate confrontation — determines how much time and energy you allot to this debate. If it was me? Tell me what I have to say to get this raving lunatic out of my face and find something worthwhile to argue.

- Sean Beckwith

The people who think Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi eventually bring up Ronadlo’s dating history as if that’s supposed to sway an argument. Is it really about who he’s fucked, or are you fucking him? No judgment. Just be open with yourself. Ronaldo is a genetic freak who was created to score goals and serve as a role model for how not to handle stardom.

Messi is an artist, a savant, a genius, but he’s slight. And the argument folds in on itself from there. The internet has taken this debate to places no discussion should go, and it’s beyond personal for a lot of people (mostly Real Madrid and Barcelona fans).

From a purely GOAT point of view, Messi vs. Ronaldo is the best-running GOAT debate we’ve ever had. The era of men’s tennis that’s winding down right now is close, but Ronaldo and Messi took turns winning accolades and trophies for basically two decades.

- Sean Beckwith

Forgive me if I’m out of pocket in my analysis of a rivalry I don’t know as intimately as pie vs. cake, but Alexander Ovechkin vs. Sidney Crosby has a blue-collar-white-collar vibe to it. Ovi has the smile of a jack-o-lantern, and Crosby looks like J.J. Redick on skates.

Both come from hockey countries, and that skews our perception of the kind of players they are. Sid the Kid has a nickname that implies “prodigy” like so many from the Great White North, and Ovechkin is the product of fighting vodka-soaked bears as a youth.

Crosby has the edge in Stanley Cups (3 to 1), but Ovechkin is going to leave the NHL as its all-time leading goal scorer, and it’s rare for any hockey player to have a one-up on Wayne Gretzky.

- Sean Beckwith

This is a true No. 1 seed as it’s literally something you can major in. I’m pretty sure this question sparked philosophy, and it’s still unanswered depending on how religious you are. I wonder about this every time I find myself aggregating frivolous clips of an athlete saying some shit on Instagram or Twitch or Twitter.

However, there is a level of recency bias in this bracket — why do you think Johnny Unitas vs. whoever Johnny Unitas’ rival was isn’t on here? I don’t know how many young people are questioning their destinies. I’ve never seen #existentialism trending on Twitter or social media threads about heaven’s PER or nirvana’s WAR. I don’t fault them. The grand scheme is frankly kind of terrifying to think about, and people who bring up Kafka and Nietzsche on a one-name basis aren’t the kind of people I’m trying to talk to at a social event.

Go ask Greg about how to come to terms with your existence. Can’t you see I’m trying to find mine at the bottom of this glass?

- Sean Beckwith

This dunk contest rivalry was Michael Jordan against Dominique Wilkins if Jordan and ’Nique mattered 95 percent less. It’s difficult to gauge the greatness of the 2016 dunk contest because we’ve had way more bad versions of the event than good ones since Jordan-Wilkins and the Vince Carter show in 2004.

The outcome did spark some debate, but most of it was that the format incorrectly gave LaVine the trophy instead of Gordon, who posted four straight 50s before the final 47 sunk him. Gordon changed his jersey to 50 (in honor of all his perfect scores) when he was traded to Denver and went as far as to produce a documentary about his dunk contest history. Though the only streaming service to pick it up was YouTube.

- Sean Beckwith

At the time, Stone Cold was the biggest wrestler ever, by far, at least in terms of his ability to draw money. He chugged beers, talked shit, and did it with as much charisma as anybody. That’s why it was so alarming when The Rock showed up with just as much cachet, if not more. It was one of those feuds that made fans not want to pick a side.

Of course, we did, and if you chose The Rock, good for you. It goes without saying who won the post-wrestling career arc, though I feel like things could’ve gone differently for Austin without the injuries. I mean there’s a chance this debate could still go to Stone Cold, but it’s less dependent on his future actions and more about how many Black Adams the People’s (but not Box Office) Champ has in him.

- Sean Beckwith

The late 1990s were a wild time for better and for worse. Entertainment turned up the shock value knob way too far at times. Watch the HBO Music Box documentary, Woodstock 99: Love, Peace and Rage to see Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers playing a set with nothing but his bass covering his penis, while part of the festival ground is on fire, for one example of the boundaries that didn’t exist at that time.

In wrestling, the feud between WCW and WWF fed right into the hyper-sexualized and violent world of the 1990s. However, as problematic as both of these franchises were, they often made for spectacular television.

For young people lucky enough to get a television to themselves on a Monday, to flip back and forth from Monday Nitro to Monday Night Raw was to mainline adrenaline for two hours. The NWO could be spray painting people on TNT, and on USA, Stone Cold Steve Austin might be performing a mock execution in the ring.

The phrase “anything goes” perfectly fits this era of professional wrestling. Outside of hardcore pornography, everything else was fair game. WCW poached several WWF stars, and Vince McMahon responded by having The Undertaker hurl Mankind off of a cell and kidnap his daughter for a demonic ceremony.

McMahon is a highly offensive person. He turned out to be worse in real life than his over-the-top, scripted product. But from 1996 until he bought out WCW in 2001, his company and his rival put on a show that Monday Night Football couldn’t touch.

- Stephen Knox

This debate probably measures how a person feels about humanity. Would you rather stab your fellow human, or run that person over with your car? The main difference between these two cities is how people experience congestion, pollution, and party.

New York is a battle with the elements like no other American city. Plenty of them get colder, but those who aren’t a member of the Roy family are likely transporting themselves around the city by foot or by subway, regardless of temperature or precipitation.

It’s a place where sharing space with other people is a necessity. Sometimes that is great. People meet each other, become friends, drink until 4 a.m., and eat all kinds of different cuisine. Other times, this results in a loud shouting match that sometimes gets physical while everyone else is jammed together on the subway just trying to get to work, and ignoring what is going on right in front of them.

In LA, public transportation life does exist. Also, having to rely on it can cause deep hatred to well up inside a person until it manifests itself as a stress-related health problem.

For those fortunate enough to own an automobile, they get to experience the joy of stopping and starting along LA’s mass of freeways, and their 10-mile drive taking an hour. And then when the desired exit finally appears, a frenzied car will zoom in front and endanger the lives of at least four other automobiles at the same exit.

But the weather is all that it is cracked up to be. The temperature during Super Bowl week 2022 was 80 degrees every day. Don’t let this unusually rainy 2023 winter change your opinion. Come May, it will not rain again until October at the absolute earliest.

- Stephen Knox

This relatively new debate arose along with Nick Saban’s run at Alabama. The SEC learned how to game the system, which is 85 percent of college athletics and has more or less run the sport of college football since, fuck, I guess Pete Carroll’s USC tenure. Fans in the South, hell people in the South, like to remind the rest of the country that their ways are the best ways.

However, this debate is about football, not whether COVID will rise again. I’m desperately rooting against all those jackass SEC fans who show up to games dressed like they’re going to a party at the plantation because I can’t take it anymore. The conference pride is taking on a tinge of something else, and we need a respite. (Paging Lincoln Riley.)

- Sean Beckwith

In the moment, it felt like Nas was the loser of his feud with Hov, and all these years later, Nas is still the loser. However, I was one of the people vigorously defending Escobar. Jay Z was this commercial success piggybacked off of Notorious B.I.G., and Nas was already so established that he beefed with Biggie himself.

To be fair, Nas did feel like the Angry Rapper, and perhaps that’s why I was so drawn to him during my adolescence. Well, that and Illmatic should be in the top five of any all-time hip-hop albums list. I can’t defend Street’s Disciple or really anything after God’s Son.

However, Jay Z got bodied by his own wife and may have (or definitely did) sell out Colin Kaepernick so he could run Super Bowl halftime shows. Oh, that and he buddied up with that antisemite Kanye West. (Technically, Nas also could be canceled, but I’m going to stop writing before I make everyone feel bad.)

- Sean Beckwith