“It’s not an interview,” he says.

“No, it’s not an interview,” I reply.

“I am not asking – I am telling, it’s not an interview.”

“It’s not an interview.”

I don’t think he had eaten in three or four days – it is rare that I get out-ordered at breakfast time.

As it was not an interview, we shot the breeze and occasionally he shot me.

We agreed that 90pc of the stuff I had written about him was all good – it was the 10pc that he needed to get off his chest. He remembered every line.

I really did have to dredge my memory for an acceptable response. I was fascinated by him – he is compelling company.

You are drawn by his intellect and sense of humour. I can give as good as I get, but he floored me a couple of times – I couldn’t see the punch coming, because I didn’t think he would have the balls to deliver it. Like all champions, he never doubted himself – it is a prime quality. I admire and respect people who have no hesitation in saying it as it is.

Long before our encounter was over, my corner had thrown in the towel.

At about one o’clock, my missus rang.

“Your children are dying of starvation . . .”

“We are not finished but make your way down to the restaurant.”

When my crew arrived they scrambled into a table beside us and ordered lunch. We ordered lunch as well and as we did my youngest fella asked me “who is that guy with you?”

ROG could not believe they had no clue who he was. None of my children have touched a rugby ball and I am cool with that. I have a feeling O’Gara’s children might not get away with that.

Sometime in the afternoon, ROG headed off. Racing were going down the coast for a pre-season tour as champions of France. He needed to pack.

He had a mare immediately after leaving as his car was towed and it cost him €210 and five hours to get it back. He just about made the trip.

During the coverage of the 2016 Champions Cup semi-final in Nottingham, where Racing just about got the better of Leicester, there was a moment when O’Gara came out onto the pitch as a water boy.

At that stage, his official title was kicking and defence coach and there was some tittering and chuckling in the BT Sport commentary box about O’Gara’s propensity for tackling.

I watched him play hundreds of times for Munster and Ireland and while he was never a devastating tackler, I could never remember him backing out of a tackle where many in his position would have.

The point missed by the commentators was that even though it was not considered a strength of his, how could they assume he did not have the mental aptitude to organise and motivate a defensive line?

Racing won the day with an obdurate performance in defence – still, there was no post-match change of view when the French side held their nerve and trusted their training.

Racing lost to Saracens in the final but later that season won the ‘Bouclier’ in astonishing style. The Parisian team had their scrum-half Maxime Machenaud red-carded for a dangerous tackle in the 20th minute.

A lot of French sides would have shrugged their shoulders and folded the tent but Racing showed considerable sangfroid and no little determination to hang on in there.

The more Toulon forced it the more resolute the Parisians became.

Tireless and unbreakable, the blue and white eventually prevailed 29-21 at a sold-out Nou Camp in Barcelona.

The sniggering behind the BT microphone was brought into sharp focus. O’Gara, 20 minutes into a grand final, was able to galvanise his troops and marshal a rearguard performance on the hoof, which won the day. That much was later recognised by the French and world press.

It is amazing when you meet players who have played at the highest level and after a while you realise how little they know about the game. They know the bare mechanics of their own position and the rudiments of what goes on in other parts of the field, but that’s it.

O’Gara is a deep thinker on the game and has a strong bias on the mental side of rugby. Even though we discussed the way the game was going, I kept asking a question over and over: “what is the next step?”

He did not profess to know the answer then but after five years at the coal face and having worked in the cutting-edge environment of the Crusaders you cannot but have found enlightenment.

I am pretty sure he knows what the next step is now and he is one of the few original thinkers setting an agenda and a definitive style of play.

I had my own ideas on how the game will evolve – into an all-purpose
offloading game where nobody thinks of rucks or clear-outs and you practise the ball out of the tackle or before the tackle until it becomes first-nature.

It would be difficult but not impossible to achieve in a season or two.

In the northern hemisphere, only O’Gara is a disciple of this style of play. Keeping the ball alive sounds like a simple philosophy until you realise how little time and space you have at the elite level – but at least he is attempting it and is now having success with it.

The acid test comes on Saturday and it gives us another clue about just how smart and brave O’Gara is.

All of the all-French games in the knock-out stages were dreadful. They can all play fast and loose but they all tried to bludgeon their way to victory.

Toulouse were so discommoded by Bordeaux’s negativity that they could not impose their style on proceedings and got dragged into a dogfight.

If you believe in something, go for it. Will O’Gara unleash his team or will he play the percentages and go for an arm-wrestle like the other French sides?

Toulouse bleed like any other side and if you attack them they are vulnerable. If La Rochelle play with the sort of conviction which saw off Leinster, they have a real chance.

La Rochelle are the underdogs on Saturday, but they have a far smarter coaching ticket who realise they need to take some chances.

As O’Gara said this week: “I can’t guarantee my team will win, but the aim of the coaching staff is for them to perform.”

That is crucial. Leinster did not perform and were well beaten. If La Rochelle do perform, they have a really good chance.

Irish rugby supporters will be watching on Saturday to see if the anointed one can produce something special that will stand to him when he eventually takes the reins of the national team.

That move is not cloaked in any uncertainty – it is without doubt the next step.