Proceedings have adjourned for lunch until 2:30

Deputy Chief Justice asks Tsotsi if he felt intimidated by the Gupta.

"There was an element of intimidation, considering that they had a relationship with the president."

He said he felt that it would cause displeasure to the president if he did not respond to the Guptas and that he could be reprimanded by him, as it had happened to colleagues in government. 

Seleka asks Tsotsi why was he the person who was approached by the Gupta's, given that the was only a non-executive chairman. Tsotsi says they considered him to be in a position of authority.

He further asks him why did he not rebuff their requests for meetings.

"If one looks at what influence they were capable of exerting, it is clear to me that not responding to their needs was something that would be seen a being disrespectful to ubaba".

Tsotsi reiterates that "if you were unable to assist them you were going against the wishes of the president."

Tsotsi says Tony spoke disparagingly of those who did not want to assist him and branded them "baba's enemies" -- in reference to former president Jacob Zuma.

Tsotsi now moves on to his third encounter with Tony Gupta. He says the meeting took place at the Sahara offices in Midrand.

During the meeting, Tony queried why their TNA contract was under investigation.

"I told him that the contract had been entered into irregularly," says Tsotsi, to which Tony responded; "You are the board you can make this thing go away."

Why did they raise this matter with you, not the CEO, who is the face of the company. Why you, Seleka asks Tsotsi.

Tsotsi says that the Gupta appeared to have no respect for processes.

He goes on to say that there was a time in 2014 where Tony Gupta sought his assistance in getting someone appointed as Eskom's chief procurement officer.

He can't recall the person's name and but the person at the time worked for MTN.

"I said I don't know anything about that, I don't work in operations and ordinarily there would be an advertisement for the job."

"He wanted me to pull the strings for him."

Tsotsi further states that the position was not advertised, but an appointment was eventually made.

After the ANC event, Tsotsi met of the one Gupta brothers, Tony, around the middle of the year in 2014 at the family's Saxonwold residence. 

Tony Gupta wanted  Eskom could help him with a deal to supply gas to the OCGTs.

"I said I don't know anything about that, but I can find out from Eskom what is happening," he says.

He says he then enquired and found that the process is facilitated by the department of energy and there was a company that was already vying for the same business.

Zondo raises the question why the Gupta's always summoned people to their residence since a number of people who have appeared before the commission were asked to come to their residence instead of going through the proper channels of setting up a meeting. 

 

"You were helping the ANC to raise funds," Zondo charged.

"You have to understand that those events are fundraising events for the ANC."

"I can't understand why Eskom attend such as an event, given that they are a state-owned entity, there is nothing they want from the government, you already have access to a minister," asked Zondo.

"Why did you have to spend money..... by buying tables. Why must people pay money to get time with ministers," Zondo probed further.

Tsotsi states that Eskom wanted to use the opportunity to reach out to its customers and that they saw the presence of the SABC as an advantage to reach consumers.

The commission adjourns for a tea break. Tsotsi will answer Zondo's question after the break at 11:30.

Tsotsi now moves to his first encounter with the Gupta brothers, which was at a dinner organised by the ANC ahead of its annual January 8 rally.

"It was in January 2014," he said.

"I was seated at the table with the ANC top six where the two Gupta brothers were also seated," he said adding that Eskom had provided sponsorship for the event.

"That was the first time that I got introduced to them," said Tsotsi.

Zondo wanted Tsotsi to explain why it was deemed "proper" for a state-owned entity to sponsor a political event.

The meeting was eventually held on the 11 of March, says Tsotsi. Zondo wanted to know how the date was fixed. "It was fixed by me," says Tsotsi, adding that the minister was not consulted about the date.

"Prior to that, there was a meeting on the 9th of March, that meeting came about following my visit to the resident of president Zuma," says Tsotsi.

Tsotsi states that he had a good relationship with former minister Gigaba and had regular meetings with him, however, he did not enjoy the same relationship with Lynn Brown.

The memorandum of incorporation states that if a shareholder decided to interfere in the business of the board, that exercise has to be conducted in writing. 

Tsotsi says no written communication was provided, either from the minister of the president. One of the matters that were expected to be discussed in the meeting included Eskom's financial statement, as the company was approaching the end of its financial year.

The majority of board members agreed to the postponement, however other members expressed concern over the unexpected delay during the board's next meeting, according to Tsotsi. 

Zondo asks Tsotsi if he thinks there were any issues that were going to be discussed in that board meeting that he thought the former president or former minister Lynn Brown had a particular interest in. Tsotsi says, no. 

Advocate Seleka draws Tsotsi to Eskom's Memorandum of Incorporation which outlines the procedure for the convening and canceling of director's meetings. The document does not authorise either the minister or the president to adjourn a board meeting.

Zondo asks Tsotsi if it ever happened before during his first tenure as chairman of the board that he got instruction from former Public Enterprises Minister Malusi Gigaba or Zuma to cancel a board meeting. Tsotsi replies, no.

"So this was the first time," says Zondo.

Tsotsi confirms that it was the first time it happened. He concedes that it was strange for Zuma to call for the postponement.

"The only reason I could think why a person who is not a part of the board would want a meeting to be postponed is because there is something he or she does not want the board to discuss in that particular meeting. That is the only reason I could think of, otherwise, why would they not want the meeting to take place," says Zondo.

Tsotsi says on the eve of the board's first meeting scheduled for 26 February 2015, he received a call from former president Jacob Zuma informing him that the meeting must not go ahead.  Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo asks Tsotsi if he did not find it strange that Zuma wanted the meeting postponed. "This is not a cabinet meeting, it's a board meeting, did you ask him why he wants the meeting postponed," says Zondo.

Tsotsi says he did not ask Zuma for reason for the postponement because his "fiduciary duties" rest with the minister, not the president. He says he did not ask because he had no formal working relationship with the president.

Evidence leader Advocate Pule Seleka SC, is taking Tsotsi through his professional experience. He states that his appointment to the Eskom board in 2011 was his first appointment as head of the board of an entity. 

He says he applied for the job following an advertisement for the job, and he was not interviewed for the job.

The evidence of former Eskom chairman, Zola Tsotsi, follows that of ex-CEO Tshediso Matona on Monday, who was in 2015 suspended by the board under Tsotsi's leadership.