Rob Delaleu seemed like a solid choice to highlight, as a companion to our USA Today Leaders of Change project. Bristol Community College's former and very successful men's basketball coach, Delaleu stepped down from that position a couple of years ago so he could properly devote himself his full-time Bristol CC position as director of the Multicultural Student Center. He now oversees and partners with Athletics, the Women's Center, Veterans Center and Office of Disabilities. A Black man who has lived in the New Bedford area since the seventh grade, his experiences both private and professional qualify him as someone with his fingers on the pulse of the Black community. Delaleu, who has started work on his doctorate in higher educational leadership, readily accepted our Q&A challenge which, we believe, did not come loaded with powder-puff questions. In answering, Delaleu, 41, shared several episodes of racism from his own life and did not back off talking about the riots, his firm belief that much work needs to be done to significantly reduce racism, and whether a white person can truly understand what it is to be a Black person in this country.
Herald News: What has it been like at the center with students largely banned from campus the last half year due to COVID-19 fears?
Rob Delaleu: Even though we’ve been remote and living in this virtual space, this probably has been the busiest time for me as a professional, with the differences, with the things that are happening in America, the real-time issues that are taking place. When the George Floyd incident happened, we ended up doing what we call a fast-action forum. And the fast-action forum was a space for everyone to kind of come together to talk about what’s happening because it was such a tough time, and people couldn’t really wrap their heads around it. From there we ended up having several other forums. The next forum was criminal justice, race and policing in America. We had Chief Cardoza from Fall River attend. And we also had Chief Nataly, our chief here, and we had other police officers and therapists from around Bristol County, also throughout Massachusetts, and from other places like New York joined in. It was just another powerful, powerful forum. And then we had a race and educational equity [event] a month later which was a forum where we had K through 16 professionals join in, and we talked anywhere from race and educational equity. ... People seemed to be pinned against each other; we’re trying to create spaces where we can come together, discuss the history of things, and really develop ways that we can influence change and develop opportunities to really change for the better, not change for the worse.
HN: Are white students a meaningful part of the Multicultural Center community?
RD: Absolutely. One thing about our office, which is one thing I’ve really, really wanted to focus on — although we are a safe space for specific demographics and our focus sometimes is for those groups, ultimately are for those groups — we are so diverse. Over 34 percent of our active students utilize our space, our white students. And there’s such a great synergy and such a great open spacing. We have our debates. We have our things that we go back and forth. I’m telling you, we have students from Westport, Dartmouth, all over. Attleboro, that have different upbringings from those students who are raised in Fall River or New Bedford. And it’s such a beautiful entity. And we have a good amount of students who use our space on a daily basis. I wish the world would mimic our space because our space is just so collaborative and such filled with vibrancy. There is a difference of opinions, but our students get through it, which is great, too.
HN: What is the Black community climate relative toward racism?
RD: The feeling is, one, of uncertainty. I think the Black community has always felt marginalized in a sense of where is my opportunity. America’s a place that gives you an opportunity, but there are certain things that really pin people and hold people down in a sense, psychologically. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s really happening, but psychologically there are things that really pin us down. We’re feeling a little bit lost, not loved, in a sense. You can see it. That’s another feeling. You see that from a lot of individuals. They feel that they’re not loved and respected as an equal. It’s like, hey I’m telling you that these things are happening and it’s not right. And yet, individuals are finding any which way to counter that feeling and not take into consideration. There’s a bit of emptiness there.
HN: Can white people truly understand what it's like to be a Black person in this country?
RD: I don’t think so. Again, that’s just my personal opinion. Now we can tell you the stories and all these different things, but that feeling of walking into a space that is all white and being a Black person is something that I don’t know if any person that is not Black could ever feel. Being pulled over. You hear things like must comply with the police, and you do. And although you comply, you still have a gun pulled, drawn on you. That’s happened to me in my past, several times by police. Or if you’re being followed in a store, or if you’re being questioned. You get pulled over by a police officer. One time [2 or 3 years ago], I was pulled over for a dim license plate light and they [police] asked me, you have three cars registered in your name, why do you have three cars registered in your name? Random little things that are just micro-aggressions or implicit biases that are out there. I couldn’t tell you what it is like to be a white person in America because it’s tough for white individuals in America as well. I’m not saying it’s easy to be white. I think that sometimes that is also that messaging that’s kind of confused sometimes. So I look at, depending on where you are, depending on what demographic or race or culture you define, it’s really hard for someone to describe it. I think that’s where in America, as Black people, we’re saying, hey look, these things have been happening. Can this stop? Can we look at some reform? Can we look at things in order for us to really have the life we want. We’re not asking for freebies, we’re just asking for justice. We want to be seen as equal. We want these systemic little things to just disappear so we can live harmoniously and not be pulled over, or walk in fear or think about things. It’s true. I don’t know if a white person could think about it. My son’s about to drive. I’m teaching him, if he gets pulled over, what to do. Where to put your registration. Where to have your license. They have these cameras we can put in their cars, so he can activate them if he’s ever pulled over or something is happening. That’s something I really have to ponder and think about. And some people may say, awe you don’t have to do that. But no, that’s something as a Black man, as a father, that I have to really think about because the world being that way. I want to make sure I protect him. And I have to teach him that your pride, if someone disrespects you, I’d rather have you home with your pride being damaged than you being buried. That’s a real conversation to have. It’s just one of those things. They can’t walk in our shoes, but we would like them to walk beside us and listen to us.
HN: Can you share any frightening instances of racism you've faced in your life?
RD: It’s happened to me. I was 15 years old walking down the street and cops jumped out of the car. Me and my friend, they pulled us to the ground. They had guns to our backs and thought that we had hurt somebody. We had been at a high school dance and were going to a variety store across the street. And they didn’t believe at the time I was a student and said I fit the description. The principal of the school came out and said something and then I was released. Now think about that trauma. I always thought about that. Still to this day it feels like it happened yesterday. Those things happen. And what if I moved the wrong way and something had happened? These are the things that you really have got to think about.
HN: What is your take on the violence and looting seen in several big-city protests?
RD: When it comes to violence in protesting, I’m definitely against it. I don’t think combating violence with violence, or two wrongs, it doesn’t make anything right. If you strongly feel that the other side is not listening, or people are sabotaging your existence in a sense, I think by answering with violence in these protests and doing these kinds of things, it doesn’t make it right. It doesn’t put you in a position where things are being answered. All it does it take those who have an opinion about you and say, “See, I told you, this is how they’re acting, this is why we need policing to do what policing is doing.” And it just becomes this, like you’re feeding the monster in a sense of doing that because people are going to say this is who you are. You see a lot of times, someone gets shot or killed, and the next thing you know you’re hearing about their life story, who they were. Yeah, maybe that person had a past, but I always look at it like this, one out of every three men of color have been arrested. So if that’s the case, you can easily come up and say this one was arrested as a juvenile, this one had this issue, whatever the issue may be. And if there are systemic issues that our out there, then what’s happening? Those people are being exposed for who they are almost as if it’s a justification for violence.
HN: Blatant or subtle racism, which is more dangerous?
RD: That’s a good question. Blatant is something that happens right in front of your face. Some of us would rather have that happen. Blatant can also be disguised as violent, as well, so that’s dangerous, right? So we don’t want violence. The subtle part, to me, is the toughest part of racism. People who pretend but deep down inside they make sure that they hold people down. And these are individuals who they could be all the way up to CEOs of companies, people who own a tenement home, or people who own some type of business that they structure things so people of color cannot succeed even though they may be in position to do that. I’m afraid of subtle; you never know who is that person. You definitely see it at times, and I’ve seen it many, many times, so I’d rather have blatant so at least I know where I stand, as long as it’s not violent. But that subtle is definitely a tough one. I think that’s why where we are today because we thought things have changed – that’s what I’m thinking – I thought things have changed. And everyone is like things changed since MLK and everything is different. But when you really think about it, everything was quiet. And then all of a sudden, in the last few years, everything is now back out. Like why is it out this way? Did everyone just become this? No, because I think subtly we’ve all held it. Now you’re seeing people come out of the woodwork who are racist or are against people who don’t look like them or think differently than them. It’s sad and hopefully at some point people can find in their hearts to love one another and see people for who they are, not for the color of their skin because it’s different from theirs.
HN: Why did you agree to do this interview?
RD: We want to create spaces where we can have this conversation. It’s important that we come together, ask the difficult questions, and then we’re able to do it in a neutral space where there’s no anger behind it. There’s no vitriol behind it. We’re able to sit down and say look, this is how I’m feeling, how can I help? Or how can you make me think differently than I am.
I understand there are going to be people out there that don’t want to hear what I have to say. And there might be some people who are in that middle who kind of want to educate themselves and listen a little bit more intently, and that can create a change for us to have a better world. It doesn’t mean I have all the answers, because I don’t. I’m still educating myself. I’m no expert, but I do this on a daily basis. I’m trying to learn on a daily basis. I try to make a change on a daily basis. And I just don’t want to just sit down and listen and only listen, or just sit down and pretend I’m doing something. I want to really make a change out there. The only way to do that is to have conversations with you. Today you asked me some very tough questions. We take them and strive and try to move forward.
Email Greg Sullivan at gsullivan@heraldnews.com. Follow him @GregSullivanHN.