The Ship Must Have Only One Captain: Raian N. Karanjawala, Managing Partner, Karanjawala & Company
In an interview with BW Businessworld, Raian N. Karanjawala, Founder and Managing Partner, Karanjawala & Company, talks about the outstanding journey of Raian Karanjawala.
With nearly 40 years of experience of litigation at the Supreme Court of India, Founder and Managing Partner of Karanjawala & Co. speaks to BW Businessworld on his early years as a lawyer, being a student in Mumbai in the late 1970s, developing his first client and landmark cases for the firm. In an interview with BW Businessworld, Raian N. Karanjawala, Founder and Managing Partner, Karanjawala & Company, talks about the outstanding journey of Raian Karanjawala.
Edited Excerpts:
Prior to studying law, you were a student at Shri Ram College of Commerce in the year 1972. Why did you move from commerce to law? Was it an effect of planning while you were studying at SRCC or a decision after graduation?
I will tell you some years in SRCC. In my view that’s when Raian was truly born. I was a byproduct of Saint Columbus school. In those days we were little nerdy, little self conscious, little unlike the model school students who were always full of confidence. I joined Shri Ram College (SRCC). One of great individuals who later became my close friend was Arun Jaitely. He was contesting for college elections and we became very close friends. He brought me into many things like debating, which later led me to become the captain of college and years later in Government Law College, Mumbai. He brought me into student politics. That is what brought a change into me.
In my second year, I contested for Supreme Counselor. In my final year, I became the college president. It was also the year in which Mrs. Indira Gandhi declared an emergency.
One thing I must say here is, interacting with a lot of people makes a lot of difference in your life. At SRCC, I met Vijay Goel, Rajat Sharma and many others. It was all about a sudden transformation into a confident and outgoing person. That’s what commerce college did to me.
Why did you join Government Law College, Mumbai to pursue law as a career? Can you talk to us about your experience as a student in Bombay in the late 1970s?
After graduating from SRCC, My foremost choices were to do an MBA or Chartered Accountancy. Most people pursued either of the two after studying law. Law was not a sought after thing in those days. Arun (Arun Jaitley) went for it because his dad was a lawyer. I got one mark less than 50% and that is why I went for law. That was the real turning point in my life. I wouldn't have been so successful as I am in law. No other profession would have given me so much.
At that time, the Faculty of Law, Delhi University said you can't apply if you do not have a minimum 50%. I went to Nirmala (Sitharam). His son was my friend. He had a word with the principal and more than him, his wife Pesi had a word with Rafiq dada. Also, because of my extracurricular I got admission in Government Law College, Mumbai. That was a turning point in my life.
In the late 1970s, Bombay was both the financial and the legal capital of India. My experience as a student was fantastic. There was a great difference in administration in Delhi and Bombay. Delhi was a place full of fear. Bombay gave a sense of freedom. I still remember Sorabji spoke at St. Xaviers College about discipline and talked about a larger discipline and lamented the government completely. Also, I met two of my closests friends Mukul Diklae and Alif. Mukul and I became close friends. We were the sort of three musketeers. We used to hang together, study together and eat together.
Did you also have an experience of working? How was the Bombay high court working?
Not while I was studying. Prior to studying I did an internship with Nanavati Thanjorewala for 2 months. He was the head of the firm. Last I spoke to him was 6 months ago. He was 100 years old. Soli was there and Fali had already shifted to Delhi. Bombay was an experience that remains in your mind. Your pickup experiences which you remember forever.
Can you tell us a little about how was it to walk inside the Supreme Court of India in the early 1980s? How did you decide to start Karanjawala & Co. in 1982?
Yes, certainly. I stepped out of GLC, came back and I had a choice at that time, you know, because my masi and my mama had a house in Bombay. I had a flat in Bombay. My masi, she said to me, why don't you stay on? But I said, no, I'll go home. I came back to Delhi and I went, as always, to my. Godfather of that time, Fali Nariman for his guidance.
On the 8th of August 1979, I walked into Praveen Parekh’s office. He just looked at me and said that you work when I work, I work seven days a week. I said, sure sir. He told me to start from the next day. It was a litigation firm. Praveen Bhai was one of the most dominant advocates on record. It was busy as hell. Those were probably the hardest working years I've spent. The court worked five days a week, Monday to Friday. At 8: 30 AM we were at one of these few places, either at Soli Sorabjees' house waiting for a conference or at Mridul's house or Dr Chitleys waiting for a conference.
So every morning probably one or two of us would be sent to the conference in those days. There was no junior council system. We went before the toughest and the best counsels of that generation and probably any other generation. So when you went to Fali Nariman's house in the morning at 8:30 AM, you needed to be ready with the brief. Between 8:30 to 10 o'clock he would read the brief before getting into the car.
So when you go and he says, come in, you need to be on point. If you are fumbling, you are finished. So I read my brief from backwards and forwards and backwards and forwards so that I could meet with some of the fastest minds that we’ve come across in a long, long, long time. But it was an experience, a learning experience that I don't think could have been replicated. I think it was the equivalent to ten years of work in another firm. By 1980, We would have twenty five matters on board every day. Each of us had new matters every three to four days. I have never remembered myself being so exhausted or so tired.
The other good thing about Praveen bhai is that I met my wife, Manik. After that, in February 1982 we started Karanjawala & Co. That's how it goes.
Tell us about the initial days of Karanjawala & Co.
My first office was in B17 Maharani Bagh, it was the ‘barsati ‘of my father-in-law's resident and Kapil used to stay at C1 Maharanibagh for a month. Kapil Sibbal and we were very close. Every other day after finishing work, we would hop across to his house to converse with each other.
We used to go out for dinner. So that Kapil and I worked very, very closely these days. So I saw Kapil sort of coming up before my eyes. He was doing better and better. I kept asking myself, what is it about him? And then I realized that one of the things that Kapil had was a “can do” attitude.
The point is that this is what I'm trying to explain. The point is, when you're dealing with the case, don’t constantly look at the faults of the matter and constantly try to point out to the client that “Arey”. Why do you not do this ? Why do you not do that? you have to take the case and you have to do the best you can? I learnt from him that to not find faults in the matter, but rather find what is needed to win the case. Focus on what strengths you have with it.
Developing client relationships is very important. You know my firm was involved in the Cyrus P. Mistry v/s TATA Group litigation case. Shortly after Cyrus had been sacked, we met Mr. Tata. He said, ”I greatly appreciate you always have given us your frank advice”.
Can you talk a little bit about the initial landmark cases of Karanjawala & Co.? What did the roadmap look like in the initial years?
It was Swadeshi Politics. It was for the takeover of a particular company. We were on the side of Seetaram. It's an important landmark for me in my life, because ultimately, you know, while the journey is the journey that has certain milestones, you know, when you come across a particular milestone, you feel it. Appearing for us in the area of senior counsel was KK Venugopal, Anil Dewan, and Ashok Desai. The juniors were Arun Jaitly and Pinaky Mishara who brought the case to us.
We had involved Guru-Murthy who we had worked with in the Indian Express case, which I had worked out on at Praveen Parikh’s office. This was the team. It went on for almost 50 to 60 days and it was really looked upon by everybody in the Supreme Court.
How did you start representing Rupert Murdoch?
Rupert Murdoch came to India in 1993. I met him through my friend Iqbal Malhotra. When Rupert Murdoch wanted to enter India, Iqbal Malhotra was to his point man. Iqbal needed a good team around him. That is how I came onboard. He fixed up a meeting between me and Murdoch at Oberoi in the morning. Rupert was staying at the Oberoi. We chatted. We got along well.
I remember during one of my many conversations with him, Murdoch told me very clearly the ship must have only one captain. He always had that belief that the ship must have only one captain. One person will decide the destiny of the group. The other family members in other ways will be there. They will get inheritance. They will have money. But one person has the say. He always believed in that sort of one person leadership.
You are known to be the advisor to the rich and powerful and famous. Your firm is the number one litigation firm in the country. When you talk to your clients or peers or friends. Who may be industrialists, politicians, what do they think, how are they going to deal with Covid. How will they deal with the future?
Firstly, because it was so quick and so sudden everyone is coping with a sense of uncertainty. No one has definite answers. Everyone is living in the times when the bad news is accentuated and put out there; the economy is crashing. Everything is hunkering down going in a bunker. Indian economy is slowing down. At the moment, there is pessimism combined with sadness. Fear combined with panic. That’s the sense I get.
People also have had a lot of time to ponder what went over the years. While people have been sitting at home, they have been pondering, over what went through the years. What change and shift I can do with my life.
You even suggested a method for courts to open so that the backlog doesn't add up. And the business, of course, continues as usual, keeping the safety and security of justices, of people who represent the litigants and the professionals who are your peers. So give us a solution for how the judicial system, the courts could go on and keep functioning. Is there a solution that you like?
The solution is unclear at the moment. In certain circumstances come on a video, as you see in a video conference. It is best for a two way dialogue. It's not so good in a three way dialogue. For example, for an ex parte matter where the lawyer speaks and he speaks and nobody else interrupts from the other side, in this case a video conference might work. But people are somewhat intimidated. Lawyers are not able to get into arguments over videos. Judges may have a sort of a question, but they don't want to say it because they are on video.
Well, one way and have been sort of asking about. You can get something called a polycarbonate transparent sheet or a perspect transparent sheet, which is just a sheet of plastic, totally transparent with your hang from the wall to the floor and that locks out. Anything going between the judge and the district, you have mikes on this side, you have mikes on that side. So it's like a glass sheet, except that it's much more flexible than a glass sheet and therefore it prevents the judge getting any infection from the bar.
Also, have a system by which people will be allowed into a courtroom so that there is less congestion. Court can work in two shifts. One from 9 to 12;30 and second from 2 to 6;30. Then, say, and the court is divided into judges. One judge that just come in the morning second that will come in the evening.
Has there been legal luminaries who you have admired and been inspired by during your journey? Which are the pieces of arguments that you heard?
Firstly, I would say Nani Palkiwala arguing for K. P. Vargheses case section 52 of the Income Tax Act. It was before Justice Bhagwati. He turned the whole case around and won the matter. Secondly, Soli Sorabjee arguing Gandhi’s bail cancellation before Justice Chandrachur. Thirdly, Fali Nariman on two counts.The rejoinder that Fali Nariman gave in the UCO bank case is brilliant was of the best advocacies I have seen. We called him the cannon.
What does it take to build a large law firm? Is there a playbook that you used? Or we can say that a playbook to build a large law firm. Is there a playbook?
Well, you have to get lucky. That's all I can say. I can say one thing about my life. There are people far more hardworking, intelligent and deserving. I'm doing far less. So you just have to get to that thing. But of course, there are many things you have to keep in mind like how lawyers should interact, how lawyers should tackle things, how things grow. But yeah, that's how it gets.
A lot of experts, whether CEOs, promoters, or legal peers, feel that the next six to twelve months, will be a golden period for law firms in the sense that litigation will go up.
Let me give you two points on that. Firstly, Restructuring could go up a little for law firms. Secondly, litigation may not go up. I mean, it will probably hold. But frankly, we have to wait and see. You know, people always say that “ Vakilon ki to aish hai”. The good times are best for everybody. So in bad times, litigating lawyers probably feel much less than a MNA transaction. So we have to wait, and watch.
How do you think the current situation can impact the future of Karanjawala & Co.? Do you think it's going to have lasting impacts on litigation?
It depends on how quickly this thread vanishes. If this thread lingers on in some form or the other for a year and then slowly some practices will start evolving. For example, I'm thinking of telling my partners to break each team into two parts. That way, one comes in on one day and the other comes in the other day. So we have to think along those lines. Zoom is something that I got introduced to now. So, you know, a lot of that is going to happen.
After nearly 40 years of practice that starts from the early 1980s, can you tell us about the habits and practices, which you had at that point which you still have in you as a successful lawyer?
Firstly, to be a successful counsel or a successful lawyer. You must have energy. You just must have energy. It requires grit. You require the ability to get up in the morning, go through the grind, get back home, get back the next day.
Secondly, you require a sense of perspective as to what this case is all about. You know, every case when you read it, they'll have fifteen points to swallow. But the good lawyers over a period of time understand it, that these are the two points I should push. And these are the points I should not push. The more acute you are about it, the better the lawyer.
Thirdly, you have to know what will turn the judge in your favour.
What do you envision for Karanjawala & Co. for the next 10 years?
I hope a lot more of the same. Personally for me now it is the transition time. It has to be handled by the next generation. So that's where they have to take over. The youngsters have to come up and so on and so forth. And at the moment, it's a family headed firm. So obviously, I look forward to both my daughters Tahira and Niharika to step up to the plate along with the existing partners taking the firm further.