If Behenji Mayawati or her supporters believe I am an agent of BJP, they should prove it with evidence: Chandrashekhar Azad Ravan

Chandrashekhar Azad 'Ravan’, chief of the Bhim Army, who recently announced his decision to contest against PM Narendra Modi in Varanasi, is suddenly being seen as the new young leader of Dalit politics in UP. However, BSP supremo Mayawati has said he is acting at the behest of the BJP to divide Dalit votes. In an interview to Sagarika Ghose, Ravan now dares Mayawati to prove with evidence that he is in any way aligned to the BJP.

You have announced that you will contest against Narendra Modi in Varanasi. Is this a genuine move or a publicity stunt?

This is a decision taken by our sangathan, that is the core committee of the Bhim Army. Why are all the parties who say they want to fight against Modi, not fielding a candidate in Varanasi? I believe in the dalitbahujan Ambedkarite struggle and I want to communicate real issues of education and health for all, to the public. I am a soldier of the Bahujan vichaardharaa (ideology) and am a worker for social justice not for politics as such. I consider myself an Ambedakarite not a politician.

When I went to Varanasi I saw that promises of Swachch Bharat have not been met. Cows are wallowing in filth. There is raging unemployment among youth. So who will challenge the failures of the Modi government? I am willing to be an independent candidate against Modi. It was funny that after I announced my decision, many bizarre things were said about me that I am actually working for the BJP.

In fact, Mayawati’s supporters have suggested you are acting at the behest of the BJP to divide the Dalit vote?

I have been constantly fighting for the rights of the weaker sections. When I announced my decision to fight against PM Modi, I thought there would be statements from the BJP and the PM. But instead the only statements were issued from the opposite side! Statements were made from the BSP and others accusing me of having links to the saffron party. If behenji Mayawati or her supporters believe I am acting on behalf of Narendra Modi and the BJP, they should prove it with evidence, instead of coming up with these ajeeb (bizarre) accusations. Its easy to say whatever you want. When the Bhim Army fights on the ground, gets attacked, nobody comes forward to help us. When we announce we want to play a role in politics, then everybody has accusations.

You are travelling across North India making contact with Dalit youth, what role do you see yourself playing?

Yes, I have been travelling across North India. I have gone to Jodhpur, Ganganagar and other places in Jodhpur, have also gone to Bhind in MP. Lakhs of people are coming to meet me. I don’t see myself as a politician but as a fighter for the bahujan andolan, to make the bahujan an equal `hissedar’ (stakeholder) in society. I want to keep alive the revolutionary Dalit dreams of our bahujan ancestors. We need to build a strong bahujan society and re-ignite the Ambedkarite mission. My slogan is what Babasaheb said: Vote hamaara, raaj tumahara, nahin chalega, nahin chalega. (My vote, your rule, won’t work, won't work)

But in 2014 and 2017, many sections of UP Dalits, particularly non Jatav Dalits switched loyalties to the BJP. Do you believe you can wean them away?

We need to ask the question: how did the Bahujan andolan become the Sarvajan andolan? Why are Dalits and weaker sections still labouring under upper caste dominance? Why do Dalits go to the BJP? They go because they want some self-respect, they want samman in society. When the bahujan becomes an equal partner in politics and gets self- respect he will no longer go in search of it to others. That’s why we need to strengthen our own society. Today if someone spends over 70 lakhs in getting elected, he will want to recover the money any which way. There is too much money in politics and many gravitate towards big parties. That’s why I believe its important to strengthen society first, so that weaker sections feel empowered. Hame ghulami se mukti chahiye. (we want freedom from slavery to upper castes).

Priyanka Gandhi met you in hospital a few weeks ago, are you looking for an alliance with the Congress?

No, absolutely nothing like that is on the cards. She had only come to enquire about my health as I am not keeping well. It is part of our Indian culture and humanity that we all visit and enquire about each other, this is the spirit of healthy comradeship. Besides, as far as the Bahujan andolan is concerned, we have to maintain relationships with whoever is in power, we have to be able to place our demands before anyone who is in office. Hame rishtey bana ke rakhne hain. (We need to maintain relationships with others in politics).

In Varanasi, you asked all parties to support your candidature, but why should they make space for you?

Let them not make any space for me, that’s okay. But they also have to ask themselves: if they call themselves Modi’s rivals, or Modi virodhi, then why don’t they have a face who can take on or can defeat Modiji in Varanasi? The BJP has two big faces-Narendra Modi and Amit Shah, but who are the national faces of the opposition or the gathbandhan? If they want to create a barabari (equal playing field) with Modi, why don’t they field someone? Why doesn’t Behenji stand against Modi in Varanasi, or Akhilesh or Mulayam Singh Yadav? I have been tortured for 16 months by the Modi government. I was reduced to a terrible condition. Now I want to teach this government a lesson. I am a Modi virodhi person and I want to raise the issues that need to be raised in Varanasi such as communal politics and false promises.

There have been many Dalit leaders before you, how are the new generation like you likely to be different? What is your view of Jignesh Mewani?

I would not like to comment on any particular individual, but whoever upholds the bahujan ideology I stand shoulder to shoulder with them. I believe in struggle not samjhauta. (compromise). Mine is above all a social struggle not a political one. I am a social worker not a neta. I believe in Ambedkar’s mission of collective leadership and not relying on a single hero or single leader. Leadership by a single person only brings taanashahi, (tyranny.) I want to keep building a leadership cadre as Kanshi Ram built. Dushman kabhi dost nahin ban sakte. (Upper castes can never be the weaker sections’ friend). We can’t sell ourselves as leaders have done in the past. Main bikne wala nahin hoon. (I am not ready to sell myself)