PP: Did Mr Seopela provide you with names he had given money too? 

Zondo interrupts. 

Ms Masha was occasion only, the rest was regularly.

Place? A restaurant. Sometimes at Protea Hotel in Pretoria.

PP: Are you able to say to wish officials this money were paid?

AA: Four names:

- Ms Masha, involved in security, 

- Norman Thabana,

- Mamps Nyambuse

- Fourth one I can't remember right now

PP: How do you know that?

AA: I was present at some meetings 

PP: When you say that Mr Seopela was a man of integrity, that he could be relied on to deliver money as agreed between Bosasa and Mr Watson?

Agrizzi confirms. 

PP: Is it possible that Mr Seopela simply pocketed the cash? 

AA: No, he had previously carried large amounts of cash for us, and there were never any problems. 

RZ: After Moyane's appointment, monthly payment from Mr Seopela increased to R750 000?

AA: Correct.

RZ: Paid to one or a number of officials?

AA: They would split it.

BREAKING: Agrizzi implicates axed SARS boss Tom Moyane in Bosasa bribes scandal

Former Bosasa boss Angelo Agrizzi has implicated former correctional services commissioner Tom Moyane in the quickly expanding network of corruption surrounding Bosasa.

Agrizzi’s testimony resumed on Monday and started with bribes and gifts paid to Minister of environmental affairs, Nomvula Mokonyane.

In a bombshell revelation however, he named Moyane as a recipient of bribes during his tenure as correctional services commissioner between 2010 and 2013.The payment was allegedly made through politically connected fixer for Bosasa, Sesinyi Seopela.

According to Agrizzi, Seopela would set up meetings with high-ranking government officials and on a monthly basis between 2008 and 2016 he would take cash from Agrizzi to be distributed to various officials.

“Seopela would merely requested an amount of money from me, and was not prepared to supply me with a comprehensive list of individuals and the amounts per individuals.

”Agrizzi claimed that he handed Seopela R500 000 in cash on a monthly basis for payment to department of correctional services.This was allegedly later increased to R750 000 “to accommodate payments to Moyane and other officials”.

This is a developing story.

AA: Even though Watson had said I don't need to check on him (Seopela), I still check on him.

Zondo: If we were going to get hold of some of the little black books, we would see a record of money you paid out? 

AA: That is correct

I would often request more detail on who would get paid.

PP: Did he give you that detail?

AA: No. I asked Gavin Watson who instructed me to give the cash to Mr Seopela. 

Agrizzi: “Seopela would merely request an amount of money from me, and was not prepared to supply me with a comprehensive list of individuals and the amounts per individuals.”

PP: What was your knowledge of Seopela's qualifications?

AA: Previous ANCYL, very close to previous detail of late former president Nelson Mandela, influential in  government circles - what I was told.

Pretorius: Let's conclude this debate over the science of bribes and Bosasa. You questioned the policy of paying bribes to do business. After this discussion, did you continue to pay money to government officials for benefit?

Agrizzi: Yes, I did.

Pretorius grills Agrizzi, saying that this paragraph over his alleged comments to Watson over being "sick and tired" to pack money for people, and that it made no sense to "run the business politically" is nothing but an addition to make Agrizzi look better.

PP: "The second paragraph is there to make you look better."

RZ: "Certify yourself - that is what you believe - the answer you are giving."

AA: "We need to stop paying bribes, we are getting nothing in return."

Agrizzi dodges, and repeats the segment from his affidavit.

RZ further criticises the 2 points in his statement.

Agrizzi narrates encounter and Agrizzi clarifies: "We (Gavin and I) were driving in the car and I asked him, was it all worth it? Was it worth being politically connected and paying bribes? And we spoke even until we stopped outside Mokonyane's house and I said to him, here's a prime example of someone we have been paying and paying and she has delivered squat."

Agrizzi: Do we have to do these things?

That was what the whole debate in the care was about.

RZ: It's 2 different points:

Point A - we should not do bribes.

Point B - we should not do bribes if there is nothing in return

Zondo says: "If your point is that we should not be bribes, that is one thing. If your point is we should not be doing bribes because we are not getting anything in return."

AA: She would be handling Zuma and have charges withdrawn against Bosasa, if any.

RZ: She was just taking the money and not delivering?

AA: I was getting to a point of frustration, we were paying people money, we didn't have to be doing it, being political.

RZ: There would have been other people like her, being paid money, but not giving Bosasa any benefit?

AA: The issue was that you have major companies out there that didn't have to pay bribes to be successful.  

But what did Watson say when you said that? asks Zondo.

"He told me she had a lot of clout, and if we stopped doing that we're going to have a lot of problems," Agrizzi replies.

The conversation emanated out of frustrations.

No benefit whatsoever in trying to corrupt somebody. He says it was a waste of time and effort to pay bribe money to Mokonyane.

She didn't award them contracts and she couldn't stop the SIU investigations.

Agrizzi says he told Watson that Mokonyane is not a good investment.

Bosasa wasn't getting a lot of return from the payments to Mokonyane.

"The more you give them, the less they do," Agrizzi explains his philosophy about bribing politicians.

Agrizzi was angry that a lot of time and money was spent to get contracts from Mokonyane with very little return. But Watson told him that they needed Mokonyane's support while investigations by the Special Investigations Unit were under way. She had much clout, he was told.

AA: "I pleaded with him that we stop being politically based as a company."

He also visited a house in Bryanston:

Features include a massive swimming pool, at the top of the driveway are 4 garages, you drive into them, walk around and see the massive swimming pool.

The left hand side has a meeting room, right side is a meeting room with a boardroom table and 14 chairs, furniture is gaudy and Italian.

Zondo asked Agrizzi for features that could show that he was there:

The one house in Krugersdorp is in a cul-de-sac and to the right of the gate is a security guard. There was a double garage. There was a stairway to a second level, there were lights in the walkway. A kidney-shaped pool. Through the front-door, first door to the right was her office.

He visited Mokonyane's house on many occasions, Agrizzi says.

Mokonyane received monthly payments from Bosasa and Watson "for years". The payments to Mokonyane "never ever stopped" Agrizzi tells Zondo. Mokonyane had two houses which Agrizzi visited.

Agrizzi: "Chair...Mr Watson would take money with so that he could 'see' to the minister, while he went to see the minister. The monthly amount was R50 000. I would pack it and he would deliver it front of me."

Zondo tries to get everything straight:

Bosasa appointed a consultant, the agreement was that they would then get the contract from Mokonyane's department.

RZ: You knew that there was tender soon to go out, you decided to get consultants who you would recommend to the department, and you ensured that they would get the job, overseeing the bids, and they in turn would ensure that you would get the tender?"

AA: That is correct.

What was discussed:

The awarding of tender, tender would be manipulated in such a way that Bosasa would benefit. 

At that stage, no tenders had come out as yet.

PP: Before any invite to bid was issued, you had not only prepared a detailed analysis, but also discussed specifications of the contemplated project?

AA: That is correct

"My understanding was that this was being done so that we can get a tender that was about to be awarded," says Agrizzi.

I as instructed by Watson to recommend a consultant that the department could then contract.

A meeting was held, Agrizzi and Watson was present.

2014 relation to Bosasa and Mokonyane:

Agrizzi says in 2014 they were asked by Mokonyane to investigate security at dams. They wanted a short and generic overview. By then she was minister of water affairs and sanitation. It was given to Watson, but company never got paid for the report.

RZ: Did you ever get to be personally involved?

AA: When a request like that was made, I was told to leave everything and personally attend to it.