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Tesla Model 3 Hater Asks, Can Tesla Convert The Hardcore Gas Crowd?
4 H BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 48
This Forbes’ automotive journalist admits in the title that he hates the Tesla Model 3. Why then is he asking if Tesla can convert the gas crowd?
It’s pretty clear why this Forbes article headline is written as such. We have all learned that talking about Tesla means lots of views. Whether or not the message is good or bad — or the message is even really about Tesla — the automaker is hugely popular and its CEO Elon Musk has a massive Twitter following. In addition, it almost seems as if Tesla — a company that doesn’t advertise in the traditional sense — could almost care less if the news is positive or negative. Any Tesla attention draws people in, and that’s the truth. Anyhow, this gearhead asks and answers the above question, so let’s take a peek.
Other Tesla-Related Titles:
Forbes contributor Brooke Crothers begins:
Tesla may never win over the hardcore gas guys.
The you’ll-never-pry-my-6.2-liter-V8-from-my-cold-dead-hands crowd sees Tesla as a wannabe carmaker. Not the real deal.
I’m going to address a subset of Tesla haters. The ones who have tried the Model 3 and rejected it.
Interestingly, we haven’t heard from a ton of people or read a plethora of reviews from people who have hated the Tesla Model 3. In fact, this is true about all Tesla vehicles. Don’t get me wrong here. The company has endured a slew of issues as it’s moving forward, and its cars have been far from perfect, especially initially. But, the consensus as of late has been that Tesla is making incredible progress and the Tesla Model 3 is a force to be reckoned with.
Crothers speaks about one of his friends who’s an ICE diehard. He admits that he’s somewhat impressed by the Tesla Model S, but not a fan of the Model 3 or Model X. Yes, there are still some people out there who have finally realized that the Model S is worthy in many ways, but haven’t been sold on the Model X, and are still not sure the Model 3 can pull off the status of its older sibling. Sadly, even though Crothers says he’ll consult his “friends” to answer this questions, he only consults “Bob.” We have been called out for research that only banks on 100s or 1,000s of opinions. But, um …. this one talks about friends as plural but simply consults one ICE-loving dude? We honestly don’t even know how Forbes allowed this to be a featured article … oh wait … yes we do.
At any rate, Crothers paraphrased well-informed and all-knowing, undisclosed car master Bob’s takeaways as follows (is this coming from Bob Lutz? Since there’s no indication of who Bob is?):
- I’m a traditionalist who looks at the Model 3 and says it’s not well made, so why is it so expensive?
- It’s a big purchase for someone who is just a working stiff. If it were well-made, tested, and had some legacy behind it and made by a company that will be around in ten years, that would be one thing. But it’s none of the above.
- All those people who trade up from the Accord or Prius are, of course, going to think the Model 3 is decent. The Prius is a low water mark. I mean, if you trade up from the Prius to any decent ICE car, you’d think it’s the best car in the world (compared to the Prius).
- The Model X is way overweight. How anyone can call themselves “green” while driving a nearly 6,000-pound car is beyond me.
- The X is really a $45,000 car that is priced at $100,000. I expect Mercedes S class not C class quality — which is what you get.
- I’m sure many readers believe that they could take apart his argument (as I try to do whenever we get into it) — but that’s not the point. The point being that there are people who are smart about cars and understand Tesla but will never convert.
What do you think about this “Bob’s” analysis? Some good points? Some craziness? Please inform us in the comments section below.
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48 Comments on "Tesla Model 3 Hater Asks, Can Tesla Convert The Hardcore Gas Crowd?"
From your post above one wonders if you’ve ever sat in or driven any of the Teslas.
That’s part of the problem. Almost impossible to get a test drive in a Tesla outside of CA.
I’ve been signed up for almost a year waiting for the local Tesla store to call me for when I can test drive a Model 3.
There was no list to sign up for a test drive of a Model 3 1 year ago. If you signed up for a test drive on their website 1 year ago, they would have quickly gotten you in to test drive a Model S.
I think it’s everyone but EV fans who don’t realize that people don’t buy Teslas just because they are electric. People buy them because they are better than other cars in the same price range. Reviewers compare them to other cars in the same price range, not to other EVs, and Tesla’s cars get great reviews and the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car. So it’s not just the opinion of Tesla’s buyers.
ALL F 150s and RAM 1500 and GMCs and Chevy pickups are as big or BIGGER& LONGER than any Tesla right now , ihave driven ALL THOSE VEHICLES ,if you can’t park those trucks and a Tesla S/X you have no business driving,I also have a GAS PIG OF A SUBARU ONE THAT GETS 19 mpg on a good day
“The Model S is way too big and heavy; it’s not fun at all to drive unless you’re only going in a straight line…”
And you claim to be “an EV fan”?!?! With “fans” like this, the EV revolution doesn’t need bashers!
The Tesla Model S doesn’t earn its #1 spot in customer satisfaction every year on Consumer Reports‘ poll of car owners by being “not fun at all to drive”. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but I think it’s safe to say yours is an outlier opinion.
Here’s a rather different opinion:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
You don’t need to apologize for posting an alternative opinion, but you should for posting patently wrong information. The Model X outperforms other high end SUVs that match its price. And your doors comment is just a made up “fact” that you pulled out of your ass. There’s no data suggesting falcon wing doors break. Mine sure haven’t.
You’ll convert when you’re paying $6 per gallon for your F150.
“Bob” in the article sure sounds like ‘Boob Putz’.
The Bell curve never fails. There will always be people at the tail end.
I “won over” a gas guy yesterday! Nissan 300Z, tailgating me on a winding rural highway.
As the passing lane appeared on an hairpin turn, I moved over to let him pass. We navigated it at 62 MPH, the Model 3 not even stressing the curve. For some reason, the 300 paced right next to us, unable to get past us. As the curve straightened out, and heading up a hill, I got fed up with him hanging on my bumper like that. So I punched it. When the next curve came up 100 yards away, he was WAY behind us.
Even as I slowed back down to 65, the 300 backed off about 500 yards and never even tried to pass again…. I suspect he became and EV believer ! LOL.
I hate people like that. They tailgate you on the way down because they want to speed, pass you when they finally get the opportunity, and then block you when the road has an uphill stretch because their car cannot handle it. All I want to do is drive at a consistent speed.
I can handle a 6% grade without downshifting on the way up or on the way down, have plenty of excess power on the way up, and plenty of precise control on the way down without touching the brakes, and I end up with more energy at the bottom of the hill than what I started with.
First we will have to define the hardcore gas crowd.
aka the terminal flatulence crowd.
Bob, the builder?
Definitely. I just sold my E63 AMG (6.2l 525bhp V8) after 7 years of AMG ownership for a Model S 100D. So it’s definitely possible.
I’ll give you one more opinion for N=2. I daily a BEV in LA, mainly for value and HOV access. But I still love powerful ICE cars. Tesla’s cars are impressive on many fronts, but I won’t buy one, yet. I was ready to open my wallet on the night when the Model 3 was presented, but I didn’t care for the exterior or interior styling. That’s subjective, but performance isn’t quite there either. Yes, it’s fast in a straight line, and with some tweaks it’s even fast on a track for a couple laps as Motortrend demonstrated, but BEVs aren’t there yet in terms of sustained performance. Weight and overheating are real limitations, and they won’t be solved anytime soon, requiring a breakthrough in battery tech. It may happen, and I’m convinced ICE is finished for mainstream use, but for performance applications, it’s going to take some time before the ‘hardcore’ give it up. The definition of ‘hardcore’ is, of course, open to interpretation.
The Performance Model 3 doesn’t overheat and isn’t heavy. Is that all?
Cost of FOSSIL FUELS vs electricity are limitations for ICE if you ask me.(it cost $15 or less to “fillup any Tesla)
Seriously, what’s with the recurring patently false info in this article? Every time I watch a video of an ICE getting smoked on the track by a Tesla, the part I enjoy most is the dejected look of the losing ICE driver afterwards.
“…the Model 3… it’s fast in a straight line, and with some tweaks it’s even fast on a track for a couple laps as Motortrend demonstrated, but BEVs aren’t there yet in terms of sustained performance.”
A track test of the Model 3 showed that in a continued run, the TM3 was able to sustain a run after heating up with a reduction of only 2-3 seconds per lap.
Looks to me like that one BEV is “there” in terms of sustained performance. Of course, that’s only the highest trim level of the most advanced BEV in production; it will be some time before we see that level of track performance in production sports car EVs from other auto makers.
Maybe the hardcore climate deniers in the US won’t get converted, but when gas prices spike and gas stations start closing and EVs become widely available at close to ICE prices, and emissions regulations kick in (yes, it will take a while in the US, but it will happen), they will just get bypassed. Yes, they’ll still be around, like the idiots who fought against mandatory seatbelts, but it’ll be obvious that they’re idiots wasting their money on insecurity compensating vehicles.
Who said gas prices will spike? When demand goes down, prices go down too.
Leave it an F150 guy to fundamentally misunderstand economics.
Saudi Arabia just announced they were cutting production…..
It didn’t work that way during the transition from whale oil to kerosene, and for the same reasons — fluctuations in prices and therefore in demand, plus and new sources of oil exploited — we are almost certainly going to see wild swings in prices for petroleum as the easy to exploit sources are exhausted, and over the long term, demand declines.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Other popular petrol head tropes:
-EVs have no soul since they don’t have the rumbling vibrations and sounds of a V8
-Batteries are bad for the environment.
The premise of that article is bogus. Why does Tesla need to chase after that hardcore gas crowd?
They seem to be doing just fine creating a whole new generation of auto enthusiasts not tethered to ICE nostalgia.
The hardcore gas crowd will be dealt with by the simplest possible mechanism: Time. Some will see the wisdom of converting to an EV (eventually), and the rest will die off.
I know how cruel that sounds, but it’s true. Some intellectual revolutions, as a physicist (Planck?) once observed, happen one funeral at a time.
ICE guys are talking about better fart sound, like my fart sounds better than yours.
No fart is better of course.
“Never” is a strong term. Time is on our side. How many of these “hard core gas guys” will be around 30 years from now?
Didn’t the dinosaurs complain as they were being wiped out?
Nothing new here from Forbes, a publisher that is itself, way past its Sell-By date, if they are relying on fake news to save them from extinction.
The problem with listening to auto journalists is that they serve a small and shrinking subset of the population.
Nobody needs the hardcore gas crowd to sell lots of electric cars.
You will never convert everyone from ICE to EV. You may make the ICE versions unavailable due to loss of scale at the hands of EVs, after which they may have no choice but to buy an EV, but that would not qualify as a convert.
Example:
I have a neighbour that has 4 BMWs. Two 3-Series sedans, one 3-Series wagon and a Z4. They all have manual transmissions. I had a brief discussion about the Model 3 with them and they had zero interest. Their answer: they like driving and no manual = not driving.
Right or wrong, no EV will ever “convert” them. Same might hold for people who like the sound of a performance engine.
True, but I don’t think he’s in the main stream.
Agreed. And I’m sure that a decade into the automotive age there were people who thought no horse = no worthwhile transportation. Those super hard core ICEheads don’t bother me. Once ICEVs stop disappearing from the market, as you suggest, let them complain. It will be music to my ears.
Your BMW 3-series sedan driving neighbor is screwed. Not even BMW is building manny-tranny 3’s for the US anymore:
https://carbuzz.com/news/2019-bmw-3-series-won-t-offer-a-manual-transmission-in-america
The traditional problem with automatics was always that they were in the wrong gear when you wanted to be in a different gear, and were slow (or impossible) to get into the correct gear. Manual transmissions were the answer to that problem. But EV’s are always in the right gear. No shift lag, no gear hunting like traditional automatic transmissions.
Bob is a fool. Enough said. Oh wait Forbes is a joke. Now I am done.
Forbes Contributor section is a cesspool of stupidity.
Bob’s your Uncle,a Dinosaur.
It might be interesting to look at the history of steam-powered cars. No doubt a lot of steam car owners swore, back in the day, that they would never, ever switch from steam to gasoline powered cars. But I think it’s safe to say that a lot of them did, as gasmobiles improved in range, speed, and usefulness. It was hard to compete with the gasmobile after they started putting in electric starters!
Likewise, some and (almost certainly) eventually most of the current die-hard gear-heads are gonna change their tunes as BEVs continue to improve and become more convenient to use and less expensive to buy.
However, altho we can confidently predict that the ranks of the die-hard gearheads will dwindle over time, it may be decades before they entirely disappear. The Stanley Steamer ceased production in 1924, but its successor, the Doble Steam Car, was produced starting in 1924, in dwindling numbers until 1931.
More revelent to look at the history of automatic transmission adoption vs manuals. Still lots of people that are die-hards for manuals, even though they are getting more rare to find in new cars.
The phrase is:
Couldn’t care less.
“could almost care less ” means that you do care.
The battle over the hearts of hardcore motorheads will end with a mixed bag. For some EV’s will win over, for others it will be just like the ICE car industry. Some BMW hardcore fanatics swear that the original 1980’s/90’s E30 M3 was the best handling M3, and that everything since then has just been been bloated generation after generation. There will still be motorheads that think whatever 1960’s Big 3 muscle car they idolize is the best car ever, even when there are modern Ford Focus and VW Golf’s that are faster.
The hardcore ICE motorhead folks will do what they want to do, and over time will antiquate themselves the way Hardcore Harley fans are aging out:
https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/03/07/harley-davidson-is-a-victim-of-its-own-success.aspx
Meanwhile the world will move forward without them.
“Can Tesla Convert The Hardcore Gas Crowd? It only takes two things to answer this question: an open mind free of an agenda, and a 30 minute test drive in a Tesla. You can talk and write opinions forever, but a spirited test drive reveals a fundamental truth about the quality of the ride, comfort, performance, etc. A fundamental truth is self evident.
Yes I agree, BEVs are not for everyone or “every” situation. Also true, Teslas are expensive – but compared to what? Comparably equipped models by: BMW,Audi, Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, Lexus or a mass market Toyota, VW, Nissan, Honda. Will gasoline stay “subsidized cheap” forever? Truth be told, the roar of a performance ICE, the burble of the noxious exhaust, rowing through the gears is indeed intoxicating- yes fun too.
Then again there is the ultimate test. Part One, park your Tesla in a garage, turn on the motor, close the garage door, listen to the streaming tunes and take a long nap. Now, part two, do the same with you Mustang or F-150 …