Volkswagen Battery Order To Nearly Match Tesla’s Entire Market Value
Volkswagen Group, at its Annual General Meeting on May 3, re-confirmed its targets of introduction of 80 new plug-in electric models by 2025 and achieving EV sales of up to 3 million annually.
The plug-in lineup this year will be extended from eight models to 18 models.
The German manufacturer planned to secure battery cell supplies of up to 150 GWh annually by 2025 for some €50 billion ($60 billion) and so far contracts awarded to suppliers have a volume of some €40 billion ($47.7 billion). Just one month ago, deals for €20 billion were announced, so it’s progressing quickly at VW.
Read Also – Volkswagen Factory Will Build Up To 500,000 Battery Packs Per Year
The Fortune’s article notes that currently placed orders for batteries by Volkswagen are close to Tesla’s entire market value, or to put it another way, VW has ordered batteries to the scale of Tesla’s whole worth.
Read This – GM Exec Comments On Tesla Market Value
The comparison was made to show that automotive behemoths are now directed into electrification and under these new circumstances, Tesla’s future is expected to become tougher than in times when big manufacturers mostly ignored EVs and left the space open to the electric automaker.
Source: Fortune
Categories: Tesla, Volkswagen
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115 Comments on "Volkswagen Battery Order To Nearly Match Tesla’s Entire Market Value"
Expect a long squeeze? 🙂
In 2025?
Eggzackly. How long before Tesla counters that they are on track to use batteries which will be worth double what Volkswagen is worth by 2025?
Just more lip service. This is on the back of them no longer taking orders for any more e-Golfs due to woefully underestimating demand when it exceeded a very very small amount per month.
And eGolf sales in California only. LOL.
Good PR though.
That’s kind of proving the point, isn’t it?
It was sales of the GTE which is a PHEV variant only sold in Europe. Not the eGolf. Which is only sold in CA in the US, but is also sold in Europe.
It’s hard to justify calling this “lip service” when they’ve already awarded $47.7B in contracts
I agree. This is different to the concept car PR fluff you see so often or vague targets around ‘electrified’ sales in 7 years time. It’s huge sums of money and significant amounts of capacity being lined up.
I feel like some of the commenters here have as much agenda as Fox News.
That’s just not possible.
Some people can’t be a Tesla fan without being the Tesla cult. I got called a short seller but no I am not I’m just frustrated that I have waited 7 weeks and counting for a new front licence plate mount and the fact that I had to bring my 2017 Model S in for 4 warranty repairs within the first 6 months of ownership.
I personally will never run a front plate.
Use double backing tape and mount it already!
It depends on how tightly locked in the contracts are. Is it for a specific battery? At what cost? What will battery prices be by then? Will the suppliers still be relevant or will a new battery chemistry make the contract a bad move?
Really? Have you seen the contracts? Do you know what contingencies are in the contracts? Are they guaranteeing they will actually buy that many batteries no matter what? Maybe it’s contingent on them actually building a production car first. Awarding contracts that are contingent on some future event(s) is not uncommon. Tesla actually has plants built that are producing large numbers of batteries.
It has become hard to avoid their first production car, the audi etron quattro. Although they say there are only 250 of these on the road for final testing it feels like you run into them constantly. But they are very distinctively “camouflaged”. It can be seen as certain that production will ramp later this year.
VW has 600k laborers around planet earth. Germany is where they, Porsche and Audi, commonly leave engine manufacture. It’s German labor that makes, crates and ships the object of German engineering culture, the reciprocating internal combustion engine. It goes beyond corporate short-sightedness how anchored to ICE development this company is.
VW stumbled, taking longer than anticipated to fill its 20 billion Euro battery order. That’s when news of cobalt shortage, etc., gained momentum. Suddenly, less than half a year later, we’re hearing about ~48 billion locking up supply. If it sounds too good to be true…
I didn’t event bring up VW’s credibility.
Well, it’s exactly ‘lip service’ if by ‘plug-ins’ VW means plug-in hybrids as they never get plugged-in. So, whilst the 10-20% improvement in overall efficiency is welcome, the continued reliance on fossil-fueled motoring is not. VW may, of course, being intending *all* their ‘plug-ins’ to be EVs (ie cars without exhaust pipes to make it clear) and it may be that IEVs is playing its usual silly game of deliberately conflating the two. Who knows.
10 more plug-in models this year…we’ll know soon enough about “lipservice”.
That would be 2.5million Bolt equivalent cars. or 1.3Million ID Buzz per year.
Maybe it’s time for Tesla to buy up some car companies and create the Tesla Group.
With what money?
Tesla will fit well into VW’s portfolio though.
They have a good and hipster standing in the USA market.
If Apple buys up Tesla, they’ll have plenty of money.
If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.
Apple almost never build stuff. They place production orders in the cheapest place on earth – with no regard to workers.
So they make a ton of money, then dodge taxes and have to borrow money to pay stock owners and others. No money for roads, fire/resque/police, healthcare, schools.. all the stuff a society needs to work well.
Thank God, Tesla is not like that.
It’s not just Apple… its every big, publicly traded company in the country. They are vampires of society… sucking the world dry and not giving back anything.
Good point, TJKR!! Publicly traded corporations give nothing back! Other than the drugs that keep my Mom alive, the electricity that powers more than half the homes in the US, almost all the gasoline and diesel that keeps our country running, they make the computer you are using to post your drivel, they are pretty much all the banks that allow you use that ATM card, most of the clothes you wear, the roads you drive on, the trucks that bring you your food, but other than that, the public corporations give nothing back!
Economics 101. When a company makes profits, you are supposed to distribute some of it to your shareholders and reinvest it in the company.. R&D, efficiency etc to make your product or service better. This is not happening. What has big auto, pharma, tech done the past decade? Building garbage gas guzzling cars, making drugs that no one can afford and selling your data mined private data to advertizers and Russians. Fed printed 4 trillion dollars and most of it is being held by big business doing nothing…. might as well just pile it up and burn it! Don’t get me started on banks.
True – Tesla has instead lost so much money, that they won’t be paying any taxes at all for a long time. And its customers are the beneficiaries of huge subsidies from the federal government although most of them earn well enough to afford $100K cars.
But VW just proved that they will be reinventing the wheel at their factories.. later… someday… when they are ready to compete… but for now they will just muddy the water and tie up as many battery contracts as they can to strategically block others. Stalling tactics.
Yes yes….that’s it. VW is spending 10s of billions of dollars in an elaborate ruse to avoid making better cars which people would prefer, all as a way to double cross their competitors who have clearly already put to market 10s of millions of superior electric vehicles at a cheaper price, but VW sure has them outfoxed this time. They are spending all their cash on NOTHING!!!! all to ensure the continued market dominance of VW’s inferior product that has a lower profit margin than the cheap and much simpler to build EVs of the competitors. Genius. Pure genius. Wish I’d have thought of that.
Do we know which suppliers got those contracts? LG Chem? Samsung SDI?
Samsung SDI Co., LG Chem Ltd. and Contemporary Amperex Technology Ltd. according to VW.
VW should award this to Tesla or at least partner.
Tesla would just built one more Gigafactory with 150 GWh production capacity for it.
Nobody wants those silly cylindrical cells.
You realize that almost all the bottlenecks so far have been in making the battery pack for the model 3, right?
You mean award it to Panasonic?
Tesla has no battery cells to offer. Tesla’s cells are made by Panasonic and in some cases Samsung. I’m sure Panasonic is happy to sell some battery cells to VW though, it is already selling to other Tesla competitors.
That will break their neck as in 2-3 years EV bubble gonna burst
Good to know, James. Check back here in 3 years. Until then, enjoy rolling coal in your F350 or whatever you drive.
He lives in his ma’ basement, no need to drive anything as he never gets out.
2-3 years? Legislation do not happen that way.
Bubble it will be, but bursting it, could only deregulating economy fuel efficiencies. Not gonna happen. Could not happen that fast even if legislators would be willing to do suicide (outside of USA that is)
EVs are currently about 2% of the market. That leaves plenty of room for Tesla and VW and others willing and able to move fast to consume the remaining 98%.
Remember though, that this is the main mission of Tesla. To advance and accelerate the transition to sustainable transportation. Should be welcome news that a major automaker is making such huge investments into an electric future.
I agree. Also don’t forget the Tesla Semi – that might turnout to be a huge money maker. Nikola is the only one competing and it is with Fool Cells.
EV buses is more impactful
Proterra and BYD have that covered.
The Semi is going nowhere. In the latest conference call Musk basically said that the Semi is off the table, though not in quite those words.
Link?
Over half of the article was criticism of Tesla that had already been covered in other articles.
Only last sentences mention Tesla, the company of Jesus.
“VW has ordered batteries to the scale of Tesla’s whole worth.”
“Tesla’s future is expected to become tougher than in times when big manufacturers mostly ignored EVs and left the space open to the electric automaker.”
VW and others are rushing to catch up to where Tesla is today. By the time they get there Tesla will be ahead again.
Market valuation have nothing to do with current Tesla capabilities.
Its derivative of so many factors – some of them totally independent of Tesla (is Tom in good mood today? Does stock exchange crowd bet he is or is not? …).
Also, while anemic PHEVs do improve fuel efficiency, they are still sub par driving experience compared to BEVs, or even strong PHEVs. VW order may look “big” but it can easily be diluted across all VW brands in form of those anemic PHEVs, with only limited amount of BEVs.
Up to date VWs presented no strong PHEVs either. Presumably they are aware that strong PHEVs are more expensive then ICE and they advantages over BEVs aren’t as clear cut as their PR releases suggest.
So even from this point, VW is not even catching up. However this shows how much need to be done to move towards BEV future, and if VW is good enough to put forth real money, it’s good for them.
150 GWh annually is quite a lot, that’s 1.5 million 100kWh batteries.
Pretty large scale operation.
They said they are going to make 3 million BEVs in 2025. So this is what they will do.
So…3 million 50kWh cars. Not bad. We can also see that at a 3% market share of all cars sold in the world (100 millions cars sold yearly as an average number for the next 10 years). So, if in 2025 we are at 20% market share for electric cars (I think it will be more but…), then there will be plenty of space for some two million Tesla cars sold yearly in 2025 (10X more than this year?…not bad as it would corresponded to some 2% market share), and ….10% + market share for Chinese Brands?
They’d better get going instead of Just talking about for years on end..
Yes, and that’s why I’m cynical. It is so large a number, that more details should be easily available. Broozy said Samsung, LG Chem, etc. are being contracted, but when is delivery? 150GWh is also a large number. It is real large. Like, too large?
Transport consumed ~41GWh, globally, in 2017 (BNEF). 20% annual growth, from here, gets the market just above 150GWh per year, in 2025. -Globally.
This is like Musk’s “10X safer” claims. It’s a number that sounds too fast, and loose, to be taken seriously. There would have to be an entire mining story behind it. Commodity rights would be the first, serious, hurdle to entering such a contract. Links?
It is large enough that they make batteries in Europe, for the European made VW group EVs, and in China, for the Chinese made VW group cars.
Who knows how many Tesla will make in 7 years?
VW have plenty of PHEVs. If those allow gaming WL… eeee…. getting good increase in fuel economy in WLTP too, then we can expect more electrified ICE models, thus more GWh wasted on inferior cars. 😉
“Trust, but verify” applies to any statement made by dastardly ‘Dieselgate’ liars like VW.
Agreed that competition will be tougher for Tesla in the next decade, but why does it take so long ? We want competition NOW – the more the better for the consumers as well as the technologies. This is expected from Musk according to his Master plans.
The ones who will suffer from the EV competition are ICE manufacturers – they are hurting now due to upstarts like Tesla, but will die an accelerated death once behemoths like VAG and MB join the race. What should be asked is “What are you doing GM and Ford ?”
GM is doing a heck of a lot more than Ford is!
They sure are. GM has some of the best-thought-out EV/PHEVs on the market. Ford shoved extra batteries in the trunk of their EV and PHEVs. GM is looking to expand the Bolt platform onto new cars, and build a next-generation EV platform for even more. Meanwhile, Ford is killing almost all of their cars and sticking to Trucks and SUVs.
Yes…. It has almost gone without notice that the FORD SEDAN is going the way of the DODO Bird. FCA makes few passenger cars nowadays either…… GM (Barra) denies it, but it seems they and every other automaker are fully expecting significant declines in American Demand. Almost all the excitement is saved for China.
Bara was actually very transparent that their EV push was into China and that they will focus on profitable Trucks and SUVs in the US to pay for the transition to zero-emissions.
So has been VW, who I believe said 18 of the first 20 billion in batteries were to supply the Chinese and European market.
About 30 million cars are sold in China, and when the government says a certain percentage should be EVs. . That is what’s going to happen.
VW group, GM and others are heavy into China – and will make what is required.
I think this could be a smart move by China, since they will have more EVs, more EV development and so on.
If Tesla builds a factory in China, they and others will sell cars in a market where EVs are more and more common.
Increased focus on EVs will be beneficial to all EV manufacturers.
Will the model Y only be made in China?
Heard on Asian business news that Model Y, due to the huge market for CUV/SUVs in China, would be made there – before any other place AND would be exported to many markets.
True. GM is almost model role of how to make best effort for electrification without committing directly to building batteries capacity. That’s 2nd tier effort, but only GM seam to be capable of it. VW recent purchases may (or may not) mean that they also want to advance from 3rd tier (compliance cars only – sales level inadequate even in comparison to other models who failed and where discontinued for that particular brand, etc.)
Well GM and LG are doing that. The Bolt EV isn’t much of a car without the LG parts.
“Dying” “incompetent” “backward” Tesla delivered twice the Model 3 then GM did for Bolt EV, even though “Competent”, “wealthy”, “big” GM had a head start of a whole year….
Color me unimpressed. (But also not supprised. GM makes only shells for battery packs, and those are real bottleneck. Unless GM is willing to go Tesla+Panasonic way, they can’t catch them)
Hear, hear! After seeing legacy auto makers talk for years about giving Tesla some real competition, the only company so far actually doing so is Jaguar, with its I-Pace, and that only very recently, and with a rather low-production car.
If VW really does move strongly into the EV market, then I for one will cheer about Tesla finally getting solid competition! But given VW’s shockingly high level of vaporware in EVs, I think it’s prudent to wait until these contracts have actually been confirmed by the battery manufacturers, before we actually believe VW’s claims.
And the Bolt…..can’t forget that
Oh, I don’t know, it’s rather forgettable, and at this point more of an afterthought than the future.
Vapor Ware Thus Far…Where’s the Product ?
VW getting caught cheating was the best thing that could have happened to them. How about GM – they are redoing the Bolt by 2025. VW is aiming for 80 models. Don’t strain yourself GM, you might get a hernia.
Agreed.
Their “penalty” in having to build Electrify America charging network will be a huge benefit to them in the long run.
Better start building that network yesterday! Tesla now has a 6 year lead.
Oh wait – they did!
https://insideevs.com/insideevs-visits-first-ultra-fast-ccs-station-in-u-s/
He said network. One charger does not make a network. Except perhaps in Brian’s world.
No, it doesn’t make a network, even in “Brian’s world”. One charger DOES make a start to a network, though, and that is what Jeffrey asked for. They started building their network practically yesterday. About 6 years behind Tesla. If EA’s network in 2024 looks like Tesla’s today, I will be beyond ecstatic!
Electrify America is a huge boon to my Bolt as well. And just because GM isn’t redoing that one car for 7 more years, doesn’t mean they don’t have their own EV lineup planned. Try to keep up, TM.
GM actually announced at least 20 new plug-ins until 2023. If it adds another 60 in the following two years VW will have nothing them:)
…and yes I do think diesel gate gave VW the push to give up on diesel as the low CO2 way forward and in fact move to slowly phase out internal combustion all together.
The new Bolt by 2025 report was from an industry forecast company. Not from GM. GM has announced 20+ all-electric models by 2023.
80 models is so Far Fetched and unbelievable especially at the Slows Poke speed they moving with Most of this Vaporware . *80 Models will be Impossible in such a short time span because the Battery people will never keep up with that kind of Battery Demand , even if VW were Legit and sincere about all their Empty Promises . I Will be Pleasantly Stunned if this were to actually happen .
If these are actually confirmed contracts, then this is very big news indeed! I’ve been harping on the point for some time now — sometimes I feel like Cassandra, in accurately forecasting the future but nobody pays attention — that until legacy auto makers put their money where their mouth is about ensuring future battery supply, there’s no reason to take seriously any of their claims about putting lots of future EVs into production.
However, give the astoundingly high volume of VW’s vaporware claims regarding putting EVs into production, I’d like to see these contracts confirmed by the actual battery cell suppliers in question before I accept that they’re real.
You know they are ready to take things beyond compliance when they talk battery supply and infrastructure. VW does both and seems to be shaping up to take over from Tesla as the EV leader.
The 8 more plug-ins this year mentioned in the article should give us a short term indication about how serious VW really is about all this.
The ratio of the future will be GWh : kboe/d, as in batteries displacing oil. I’m calling it just beneath 1, but that’s another matter.
Porsche should focus on providing Chevy Volt sized battery capacity, in its Cayennes and Panamera’s. The “premium” cars are just about to pass the storage capacity of the 7-year-old PHEV, any day now. Then, when VW lifts the 25mph capped speed of its ID Buzz, this glacier is gonna move. I just know it.
I wonder when they will make a car that matches anything Tesla has already made. Probably not anytime soon.
Matches Tesla at what?
0-60mph? Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time? Charging speed?
Range, technology – agh everything….
That’s not “VW’s” job, but Porsche and Audi. Still waiting to see what VW will offer in the B and C segments (besides the eGolf).
They are covering their butt in case the ev adoption picks up in the near future. Maybe they do have a vision after all. Most of the US manufacturers are doing so little, i’m sure soon enough we will see their anti ev efforts intensify through lobbying and pushing legislation…that’s all they have left….well that and putting up for sale.
VW started to move, nice! but there are still 7 years to 2025, and then it will be 13 years ago Tesla put there first Electric sedan on the marked.
7 years is actually not a lot of time considering the target. We’re talking about a massive development effort on VW side, but the whole chain has to follow. The global lithium production capacity has to expand significantly, additional battery plants have to be built, etc.
Thanks to Tesla for leading the way, and VW now expects mass market electrification to become profitable. So time to make a move and they’ve decisively done exactly that… kudos!
“Tesla’s future is expected to become tougher than in times when big manufacturers mostly ignored EVs”
WRONG!
That was the entire point of Tesla to begin with. Musk didn’t think that he could personally change the world. He did what he did because he knew that the only way Volkswagen (Or Ford, or Toyota) would do anything was if someone took a cattle prod to them.
Tesla isn’t really a business. It’s a cattle prod.
VW’s just not willing to burn cash like Tesla’s doing. Daimler said exactly the same… we’ll be in the market when it becomes profitable. Quite logical if you ask me.
Yes, so logical to promote a technology, clean diesel, which was a lie, and then pay billions to make up for it.
VW is scum.
How is that wrong? Your counter point doesn’t make any sense… do you even logic?
You did it wrong.
You don’t snort the cool aid in. You are supposed to drink it!
So I would conclude from this that VW will not be buying Tesla… or joint venturing with them… the wisest shortest path to EV success in terms of battery tech… integrated EV systems and charger nets. IMO the first large auto manufacturing company to hook up with the Tesla guts and infrastructure will be the earliest winner after Tesla finishes cleaning their clocks. But VW is voting on ‘not invented here’ before quicker ramp up and deployment of an EV product line.
Nobody should join or buy Tesla. They have to be in control themselves.
If a fund/investment capital company buys Tesla, they will look for short time profits.
No money on new stuff, just make more copies of what they got now, and sell before other investors find out they are falling behind in product development.
Dirty Filthy Cheating VW!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4103960/Now-25-000-British-car-owners-contact-lawyers-just-ONE-day-sue-Volkswagen-dieselgate-scandal.html
I have yet to see a plug in VW. If they spent 10% building rather than press releases about vehicles we can’t buy we would be much farther ahead.
I drive a VW Plug In here in the Netherlands.
Called VW Golf GTE.
https://www.volkswagen.de/de/models/golf-gte.html
Now that Mercedes is on the scene, BMW is done for! I think both Volkswagen and Tesla can coexist in the growing EV space. The ‘watch out’ concerns are going to be far more applicable to the ICE cars that these new EVs will be replacing. This is going to affect legacy ICE car makers(like Volkswagen) more than it will Tesla, who have no fossil cars to supplant.
Given that Tesla has a near indomitable control of and access to a stable and growing battery supply, the most important EV component with regard to cost, I’d say they’re in pretty good shape for now.
If Volkswagen follows through this time, the whole EV takeover timeline gets pulled forward. That’s a GOOD thing.
Nope.
Nothing can live in the same space as Tesla for now. Tesla have cheapest battery packs. Period.
That mean Tesla can make profit on their cars where others can’t. It means Tesla can put enough of them in their cars where others can’t. It means Tesla can scale up on a crazy pace, where others can’t.
Nobody can do Tesla S/X/3 better then Tesla, right now. Best VW can do it to make models purposefully different to Teslas, so that Tesla wont eat all those sales. (aka, make an ID Buzz as that’s totally not a Tesla thing 😉 )
“Tesla have cheapest battery packs.”
I don’t believe their cylindrical small Panasonic cells are cheaper to manufacture than pouch batteries from Samsung SDI or LG Chem on large scale.
“That mean Tesla can make profit on their cars where others can’t.”
Go ahead, waiting for first Tesla profit.
“It means Tesla can put enough of them in their cars where others can’t.”
Wait for the big guys to enter the ring.
“Best VW can do it to make models purposefully different to Teslas, so that Tesla wont eat all those sales.”
Best VW can do is make models that are actually much better build quality. Audi E-Trons and Porsche Mission-E and such.
“Tesla have cheapest battery packs. Period.”
You have no idea what Tesla pays Panasonic for battery cells or indeed what anyone else pays. Tesla has a long term contract with Panasonic which means that Tesla is locked in and most likely is not the cheapest in the business. On top of that, no one else is using cylindrical cells in their design, most likely because it costs more to do so. Established car companies are very good at optimizing costs.
“That mean Tesla can make profit on their cars where others can’t. ”
Yet Tesla is the one that doesn’t make a profit on their cars. The gross margin of the Model 3 is negative according to Tesla filings.
“It means Tesla can scale up on a crazy pace, where others can’t.”
Yet Tesla is the one NOT scaling up. For real car companies scaling up production takes a couple of weeks. For Tesla, still 10 months after production start they can’t even reach their first puny goal of 2500 cars/week which itself is nowhere near where Tesla needs to be.
VW EV Schadenfreude. 😉
Meh. I’ve read way too much about what VW is going to do. Enough talk already. Shut up or produce a damned car.
VW, like the other car makers, is making a lot of noise and not really doing squat about it.
I suspect that when 2022 rolls around, many of the large car makers will be in serious trouble, with no batteries, and no models and nobody buying ICE.
Unless ice got outlawed, which would be a disaster in the US
That just isn’t going to happen in 4 years, let’s be realistic here, there’s plenty of time to design, test, and bring out new models, battery improvements, etc.
Just buy some popcorn and watch the entire transportation industry transform itself over the next many years
“Unless ICE got outlawed… “, perhaps this reference is of interest to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles
I’ll Believe it when I See It ….