LIVE: I am not directly to blame for deaths and sufferings - Mahlangu at Life Esidimeni hearing

2018-01-25 15:30

Former Gauteng Health MEC Qedani Mahlangu is back in the hot seat answering tough questions on the Life Esidimeni tragedy which led to the deaths of at least 143 vulnerable patients.

- For the latest updates follow News24 reporter Jeanette Chabalala: @J_chabalala

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(Courtesy of SABC)

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Last Updated at 17:56

I feel like we have let down the most vulnerable in society and for that I apologise.

I tried my utmost best to remember and access documents.

At no stage did I attempt to avoid coming to the hearings. I would like to assure you Justice that I remain available to the work that you are doing.

Being a political leader is not an easy task. It has not been easy. It has been exceptionally difficult.

As government we will try to help the families to get closure.

I'd like to say to the families that what happened is regrettable. My sincere condolences to the families who lost loved ones. I may not understand what you went though but I do understand the pain of losing a love one.

Mahlangu now has an opportunity to address the hearings.

Moseneke thanks Mahlangu for appearing voluntarily at the hearings. He explains why the Life Esidimeni tragedy has captured the interest of the nation saying that it is bigger than the Sharpeville massacre and Marikana.

Advocate Tebogo Hutamo for the State says he has no questions for the witness.

Groenewald is done with his cross-examination.

Groenewald: Do you seek forgiveness from these families?

Mahlangu: Yes I do.

Groenewald: I will argue at the end of the day that you were evasive and ... that you were not truthful in your testimony.

Mahlangu: That is inaccurate. I will not accept that.

Mahlangu switches to Zulu. She says there are times when you see that 'there is danger here'. Had I known what I know now and had a better foresight and looked at things differently. #LifeEsidimeni @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Mahlangu: Had I known what I know now, and had better foresight, maybe we would not be sitting her.

Groenewald: Mam, I put it to you that you didn't need foresight, all you needed was to pay attention.

Groenewald: You should have known that you are placing mental healthcare users' lives at risk.

Mahlangu: I would not have known that the decision that the department had taken would place the lives of some of the most vulnerable at risk.

From our reporter Jeanette Chabalala: "Moseneke just gave Mahlangu food for thought. He asked what is it that was so pressing that the patients had to be moved."

Groenewald says Mahlangu has testified for three days and she has been saying she doesn't know things. "And then the witness said she is not a prophet."

Mahlangu says it is impossible for her to have been on the ground with the team everyday. She says meetings were not everyday buy every three weeks. #LifeEsidimeni @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Moseneke: Why didn't you as political principle ask your team questions about the transfer?

Mahlangu says that all aspects of the transfer were handled by officials and it is impossible for her to get involved in the details of it all.

Moseneke: Your colleagues don't accept that you knew nothing.

Mahlangu denies that she nominated Levy Mosenogi as the project leader. She says the HOD Dr Selebano hired him.

Groenewald asks Mahlangu to read out some document which says Mosenogi was nominated by the MEC. Mahlangu says this is not accurate. @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Groenewald asks Mahlangu if she appointed Mosenogi, the head of the project which saw patients die. Mahlangu denies this. @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

#LifeEsidimeni: Groenewald: Do you deny that when you gave the instructions...a number of risks had already been pointed to you. I give you two options, a yes or no.

Mahlangu says she answered the questions over and over. @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Mahlangu remembers the meeting but she doesn't recall the accuracy of the minutes.

Groenewald says on 26 January 2016 Mahlangu has already indicated that she wanted to push through with the Life Esidimeni transfers. But by this time Sadag and Section27 had already identified risks of going ahead with the plan.

Groenewald is now dealing with minutes of a meeting, which Mahlangu doesn't seem to remember the contents of. During this meeting in January 2016 Mahlangu resolved that licencing of NGOs should be resolved by 5 February 2016, despite that NGOs where not identified.

Groenewald tells Mahlangu that she lives in total denial by saying she knew nothing. #LifeEsidimeni @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Groenewald says Mahlangu's evidence at the hearing is important because it can bring closure to the families of those who died. He adds that her testimony has not brought any closure to those affected. He argues that she lives in total denial.

Groenewald asks if Mahlangu understands the importance of her evidence at the hearings.

Mahlangu says as the former political head she understands that she needs to be there.

Adv Dirk Groenewald for Solidarity is next up to question Mahlangu.

Mahlangu asks for comfort break.

Moseneke agrees to a 10-minute interval. He says it will do everyone well.

#LifeEsidimeni: #Adv Crouse is done with her cross-examination. @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Crouse: I put it to you that you are directly to blame for all the deaths and sufferings.

Mahlangu: I am not directly to blame.

Cross-examination by Crouse now ends.

Mahlangu says she was not uncooperative or disrespectful in not appearing at the hearing earlier. It was due to her academic commitments.

She adds that this matter was clarified and she doesn't see why she is being questioned about this again. However, Moseneke points out that this is what cross-examination is all about.

Mahlangu says she was not aware the Arbitration was delayed. Crouse reminds her that she testified that she wanted to come on Nov/Dec. #LifeEsidemeni @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

A couple of minutes ago Mahlangu took issue about her impression that the arbitration is focusing on her character. Watch.

[WATCH] former health MEC Qedani Mahlangu says she feels this arbitration is more about her character and not her duty during her time as MEC. #LifeEsidimeni @ANN7tv pic.twitter.com/bAGXK3SbqB
— Nonhlanhla Julia (@Nhlajules) January 25, 2018

Crouse reads a transcript from a public meeting in which Mahlangu is quoted as saying that mental health challenges doesn't run in her bloodline and that families must take responsibility for their relatives.

Mahlangu clarifies that she meant that families must still visit their relatives despite the government caring for them.

Crouse says it appears that Mahlangu was more concerned about her political agree than the Life Esidimeni patients.

Mahlangu says she knew that she was not going to stay the course in anticipation about the ombudsman report and therefore didn't see why she should take action against any of those people who allegedly lied to her.

Crouse asks Mahlangu why she didn't have any disciplinary hearings with the many people who she claims lied to her.

Crouse: The ombud doesn't say you are blameless even when he testified he did not say you are blameless. #LifeEsidemeni @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Mahlangu says in her view the health ombudsman did not find her culpable of anything. She says that she would need a lawyer to explain to her what the word culpability means.

Moseneke says when Mahlangu feels there is an unfair attack on her character she should let him know but he says the important thing about the hearing is how people died. #LifeEsidimeni @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Moseneke says he is there to protect Mahlangu if she thinks that her character is being impugned but adds that she must answer questions put to her.

Mahlangu: If this is about my character then I would like to be allowed to have a lawyer present.

Mahlangu: I am getting an impression ... that I am here at the arbitration ... and that this is about my character more than anything else.

Mahlangu: "Again I want to repeat lastly, the truth will set me free."

Mahlangu repeats the phrase two more times in response to Crouse asking if politicians lie in their statements.

Mahlangu: "Justice, I believe the truth will set me free. What is being discussed in boardrooms, and what people say in public statements, are two different things. And I will not come here and take an oath and then say to you that this is a budget presentation when in fact that meeting did not take place. It's absolutely important for that principle to be understood..."

Mahlangu says Creecy knew about the closure of the #LifeEsidimeni contract. "What we say and discuss in boardrooms and what is said in public are two different things. The truth will set me free." @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

Crouse now deals with a speech by the Gauteng MEC for Finance -
Barbara Creecy. She says the MEC said it has never been the policy to cut https://t.co/nMjmTsWQ23 citizens. #LifeEsidimeni @TeamNews24
— Jeanette Chabalala (@J_chabalala) January 25, 2018

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