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DT Swiss 370 Hub / M1900 wheelset - How fast a freehub?

16 posts & 7 voices | Started 1 day ago by james | Latest reply from chakaping

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james - Member

I'm looking at a new bike that comes with a DT Swiss M1900 wheelset, listed only as a 3pawl hub. From what I've found elsewhere, this will be the 370 hub [not the ratchet freehub as per the 350, 240, 190 hubs]

I cannot find anywhere how fast this 3pawl freehub pickup speed is? ie the number of engagement points per revolution of the freehub
All I've found is mtbr mumblings that it might be a bit slow/low on engagement points
I've emailed Canyon and DT Swiss with no reply

Anyone know or have a m1900 wheelset or 370 hub that could count it up would be a great help?

Posted 1 day ago #
joebristol - Member

I've got the DT Swiss e1900 wheelset which o believe has the same hubs. Perhaps I haven't got a lot to compare it with but you pedal and it goes. Can't say I've ever had a ratchet wheelset to compare it to though:

Does it make that much difference?

My other bikes have an old Sachs rear hub (mtb) and a Mavic Aksium rear wheel (racer). All seem much of a muchness.

Posted 1 day ago #
mark90 - Member

24. It's slow but I'm not particularly sensitive to it.

Posted 1 day ago #
andreasrhoen - Member

Not at all a 3pawl expert.

But wonder that you don't get response from DT Swiss. E-mails I sent to them got answered - in detail - in the time frame of 2 days.

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/technology/wheel-technology/pawl-technology/
Only from my "feel": a DT Swiss 370 feels like a Shimano XT freehub. But the DT is louder. Spinning the freehub back and forth (no cassette mounted): I don't feel any slow engagement.

More expensive DT ratchet system: 18T, 36T or 54T
They are more rugged of course and need less maintenance.
No "concentrated load points" like on the ratchets...

(Funny enough: had a bike here today with the DT 370. Will have one again in two weeks or so. If I would have seen this thread I could have done some research on the above mentioned bike...)

Posted 1 day ago #
james - Member

Yes I can notice it. Having spent time on 60 and 72poe hubs, I find 16poe basic shimano nearly unridable when things are really slow and testing. Maybe that's a relection on my riding ability ..
I'm on a 36poe upgraded DT 350 atm, and while its good, I can notice the little bit of slack in pickup compared

I've just found canyons swift response in my junk. thanks Hotmail

Canyon are saying that's a 2 pawl (not 3 pawl as per the dt swiss website) hub. and only 18points of engagement.

Now I'm left puzzled

Posted 1 day ago #
andreasrhoen - Member

2 pawl: mistake?

18 points might be correct. There are more teeth in the hub - but due to the geo of the 3 pawls there will be around 18 engagement s.
Sounds right.

Engagement then equal with 18T Ratchet?
Sounds right. But not as sturdy and low maintenance.

Upgrade of Ratchet to 54T: for normal trail biking overkill. For trail bikers more an issue of sound?

370 sound: I like the sound as well.

Posted 1 day ago #
james - Member

I read the 54T bontrager ratchet upgrade is almost certain to eat itself?

Posted 1 day ago #
vincienup - Member

The replacement ratchets with more than 18 teeth get progressively less rugged, they have to. Smaller engagement surfaces for same torque.

General advice on this seems to be that 18 tooth stock ratchet is always the best choice for reliability if failure would be catastrophic, but 36t is a popular happy medium. The mechanism isn’t the same as a pawl hub, you’ve always got a bigger torque transfer area so more efficiency than might be expected but they aren’t tooth:point comparable in simple terms. More teeth will still give faster engagement and therefore quicker response to sharp inputs in technical terrain.

If you’re uncertain about the hub you have, simply pulling it off and counting the pawls is the sure answer. An M1900 at full retail should be 3-pawl, but it’s possible an OEM unit might have an older/cheaper hub. The 2pawl and 3pawl aren’t compatible at all. The 3pawl has the pawls where you would expect to find them on a Hope for example (in the freehub). The 2pawl has the pawls on a shaft that’s part of the hub body and the driven ring is in the freehub body instead.

Posted 1 day ago #

Goldigger - Member

M1900 according to this tech doc are 3 pawl.
Pages 26/34

Posted 1 day ago #
Goldigger - Member

Actually there is a 2 and 3 pawl 370 rear hub.
Doc

Posted 1 day ago #
andreasrhoen - Member

@vincienup :

Interesting. Didn't know that there is or was a 2 pawl DT around.

Ratchet: yes - guess the range from 18T to 36T is good.
From "engineering" this top DT hubs with ratchet are very good.

370, what I like on them: not as expensive but still very easy to take apart. The Shimano XT freehub you couldn't even get (completely) apart...

@james:
no idea about the price range of the bike you are looking at.
But my guess would be that most bikes with DT wheelset, up to approx 2.5 k will have the lower cost 370 hubs in it...
But that's only a guess.

Cheers!

Posted 1 day ago #
james - Member

Just for clarification Canyon have replied (again swiftly) to my follow up message
Its a 3pawl hub, (not a 2). and 18 points of engagement. Not 24 as mark90 has said above

Think I'll have to price up rehubbing the bike from new ..

Posted 13 hours ago #
andreasrhoen - Member

3pawl hub

o.k..

Sure that you will hate the 370?
Not a bad piece of equipment... 18 point of egagement maybe not the best possible so...
(I don't feel the difference so...)

Good luck!

Posted 13 hours ago #
mark90 - Member

My 370 hubs are 3 pawl and definitely 24 poe as I counted them. Sounds like there must be a few variants.

Posted 13 hours ago #
james - Member

Thank you for the clarification
@mark90

Posted 31 minutes ago #
chakaping - Member

I rode the same hub on some E1900 wheels for a while, yes it did feel a bit sluggish next to my Mavic Crossmax but perfectly rideable.

Is it worth changing the hub though? I changed my entire wheelset for just a bit more than the cost of a Hope rear hub then sold the stock set for about £100

Posted 25 minutes ago #

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