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diabetic type 1, anyone tried a LCHF diet, or know someone who has?

29 posts & 18 voices | Started 13 hours ago by svensvenson | Latest reply from aphex_2k

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svensvenson - Member

Hi, this is maybe not the obvious place for this question, but you never know with STW. I've been living with type 1 diabetes for over 20 years now, and have recently started using a pump and the free style libre patch. (all for free in france since june...)

however, the more I read around the subject it seems that the assembled/collected wisdom and treatment methods might be "wrong". So to make this short I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there who has tried a low carb high fat diet with type 1, and if so, how has it worked out? obviously there will be a period of adjustment, hopefully reducing insulin intake, but keeping a reasonable average glucose level.

I plan to talk to my endocrinologue at the end of the month about this, but would welcome any real world experiences from the collected "wisdom" of STW.

Thanks guys and girls.

Posted 13 hours ago #
sv - Member

I have a mate who has T1, he had a Facebook group to discuss such issues. Think it was called cyclists with diabetes or something. I know he had trialled some stuff - pump/patches etc.

Posted 13 hours ago #
GrahamS - Member

however, the more I read around the subject it seems that the assembled/collected wisdom and treatment methods might be "wrong".

Be aware that there is a LOT of "Big Pharma knows the cure but won't give it to us" bollocks in "collected wisdom".

Often from people who can sell you this secret all-natural cure for just $40

Posted 13 hours ago #
dmorts - Member

Is there a fundamental issue you're trying to address, e.g. lowering your HbA1c? My wife is T1, follows DAFNE and has been using Freestyle Libre recently. I attended part of the DAFNE course to learn the fundamentals.

If you're doing DAFNE then you take an amount of insulin relative to carb intake. My thoughts are if you're eating really small amounts of carbs then setting the fast acting insulin dose might become trickier. You'll still need some insulin. We religiously weigh out carb portions so my wife can get her fast acting spot on. The time when she becomes unstuck is eating out, where portions size is unknown and there are carbs hidden in things you might not expect. So sticking to low carbs might work better when eating out, but unsure about long term?

I think if you talked to your GP they would advise against high fat diet as they will say this will compound the increased risk of heart disease already associated with T1.

Is there an increased risk of hypos on a low carb diet?

Posted 13 hours ago #
tomhoward - Member

Have you done the DAFNE/equivalent course?

The high fat nature of the diet might lead to unpredictable absorbtion of carbs, meaning your BMs might be a bit more erratic, if maybe not affecting HbA1C.

Any particular reason you are looking to reduce insulin intake?

Funnily enough, this happened to me on the dafne course... I forgot to bring my short acting pen out with me, but not worried as BM was 6.odd and I had the freestyle, and the food for the day was chicken salad so I thought ‘fair enough, just don’t have any carbs’ had chicken and salad, still jumped to over 15 by the end of the day. My point being you’ll not totally eradicate the need for bolus insulin, even cutting back carbs.

Queried it the next week and apparently there is some evidence to show that a high protein intake can increase blood sugar also, which could have been to blame for the spike.

Also, for those interested, freestyle libre is now available to be prescribed, it’s just many gps won’t, due to the cost

Posted 13 hours ago #
svensvenson - Member

Aha, sometimes I love this place...

Yes to doing DAFNE, if that is the equivalent in English of measuring out carbs and dosing insulin according to intake and to the time of day and how much insulin you need to process that quantity of carbs at that time etc etc. And yes that does get slightly tricky when eating out.

I am slightly concerned about insulin resistance, after over 20 years of sticking holes in my hide.

Also, and this maybe more likely related to a plethora of other factors, I'm just feeling permanently tired, Just the feeling that I seem to be eating and adding insulin and eating and adding insulin and eating and adding insulin... you get the idea. I seem to have lost a certain level of fitness, despite doing the same about (or more) of exercise for example.

So I know this could be many things, but reading around the subject , (and not just lapping up the first snake oil salesman I come across - but thanks for the warning anyway)it seems like maybe I'm consuming a lot of my "energy" just to keep a balance between carbs and insulin. I'm not really sure how to put it otherwise.

I'm not about to throw everything I've ever been told out of the window in favour of the latest Californian wonder diet, but I was just wondering if anyone here had any actual (or second hand even)experience. It feels like there has been a load of progress recently in terms of gadgets for type one, after 15+ years of more or less similar things and they are talking about a super fast insulin coming out this year - the idea being it hangs around for less time in your system so that the dose can be more precise. Just wondering how it all fits together and looking to find things that I can make work for me really and frankly and advice is welcome.

hmmm... that makes it all sound more dramatic than it is!

Posted 12 hours ago #
GrahamS - Member

You got PM

Posted 12 hours ago #
tjagain - Member

All I can add is diabetes care seems to be moving on a a fast rate. the changes sine I qualified 30 years ago are huge. I think self help groups and cross reference what they say with what your diabetes doctor says might be the best way to get up to date knowledge and ensure it is reasonable advice.

Posted 12 hours ago #
tomhoward - Member

25 years here

There’s an app called carbs and Cals that lists a load of things (inc prepped meals, fast food, typical restaurant fayre) and the carb content, really helps when dining out.

Eating and adding insulin, I find, is a damn sight better than the other way round of yesteryear.

The super fast insulin is good as it means you don’t have to know what’s in your food 20mins ahead of time. Tricky when eating out. It arrives in front of you and you inject accordingly. It’s not bad the insulin stays in your body, it’s just there is a risk of ‘stacking’ if you eat/inject frequently.

Posted 12 hours ago #
salad_dodger - Member

My brother in law is a GP in Bristol and runs a diabetic clinic where he is pushing the carb free diet (ignoring government advice) and seeing tremendous results.

Posted 12 hours ago #
cchris2lou - Member

BIL is type 1 and has a pump underneath his skin. Goes to hospitals every six weeks and he has an insuline refill.
Check himself with a Bluetooth remote control.

Posted 12 hours ago #
poly - Member

salad_dodger - Member
My brother in law is a GP in Bristol and runs a diabetic clinic where he is pushing the carb free diet (ignoring government advice) and seeing tremendous results.
I suspect that he is dealing with Type2 diabetics though (where there is increasing evidence that robust diet management is able to to have transformative effects, and which is more normally managed in the community setting).

svensvenson - Mrs P is T1. She described going on a pump as being like getting diagnosed all over again. So if you've not been on the pump for several months at least it might be worth persevering with the traditional approach for pump therapy to get things balanced out. Presumably as part of "learning the pump" you will have had some "carb free days" to work out the insulin-carb ratios etc. She still does that from time to time as the ratios shift over time. She follows a fairly normal diet. She wouldn't give the pump back even if it meant a significant financial cost. She definitely notices that high fat foods screw up the normal absorption rates and has to use some of the more advanced "profiles" on the pump to deal with that.

Posted 12 hours ago #
BigJohn - Member

There is a method of eating, once much discussed on here, called the iDave diet.

It functions by avoiding foods which give an insulin spike - thus causing a blood sugar crash, leading to an irresistible craving for sweet and fatty foods. Therefore it's a sort of appetite suppressant and means that you end up consuming fewer calories. Apparently a food's insulin response is not directly correlated with its GI. Even though it can look like it.

I was told by a doctor that it's remarkably like a diet for diabetics. The OP will know more about that than me, but if you want to see the basics, here goes.

Basics

• NO bread, pasta, rice, potatoes etc
• NO drinks with calories
• NO fruit
• NO Cereal
• NO Dairy
• As in NONE. Just don’t do it, even a bit

As much as you want of …….
• Vegetables
• Beans/lentils
• Lean meat
• Eggs
• Seeds/nuts
• Lots of water
• Coffee
• Red wine with meals.

One day a week eat what you want.

There are other add-ons for taking on board simple carbs when exercising, and if you understand the diet is designed for overweight sedentary types who ride a bike a couple of times a week you'll get the idea.

I know a handful of folk on here who benefited. Me included.

Posted 11 hours ago #
MTB-Idle - Member

Ditto a lot of the above so I won't repeat. My wife of 26 years is a type 1 diabetic and has been for circa 40 years.

She did the DAFNE course and has used the pump for 3 or 4 years. I'm not familiar with the patches though.

We both did a LCHF diet last year. She didn't find it too difficult to adjust to. Obviously there's a lot to consider as echoed above and IANAD but after a bit of experimentation she managed to get her insulin doses under control.

Posted 11 hours ago #
tomhoward - Member

Shit, I’ve just ready that. Do I now owe you a ton of money for a nonexistent training plan?

Looks like a great diet for people who hate food

@mtbidle this. Properly life changing for me. Expensive put worth every penny Constant glucose monitoring without having to finger prick

Posted 11 hours ago #

simster - Member

im type 1, 20+ years. mtb triathlete, runner.
went low'ish carb about 6 years ago for diabetic reasons. that iDave diet is more or less what i do. super stable blood levels. hba1c measured at 46 last week. i now take very little long and short acting insulin. i just take gels before or during exercise. resulted in better sports performance, weight loss and better diabetes management. winner!
not sure why all diabetics are not advised to do the same.

Posted 11 hours ago #
dmorts - Member

hba1c measured at 46 last week

Nice one!

My wife got to that recently. Doctor, nurse all saying well done, then got to the midwife who asked if she could get it lower, no acknowledgement of what she'd achieved

Just out of interest is anyone's HbA1c below 42, pump or otherwise?

Posted 9 hours ago #
tomhoward - Member

Less than 40 is undesirable, due to the increased risk of hypo.

Let’s just say I’m a fair way off that at the moment, but DAFNE and the freestyle libre are helping massively, just need to wait a few months for the results to show

Posted 9 hours ago #
paton - Member

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/nutrition-network/type-1-diabetes-and-the-banting-diet

Posted 9 hours ago #
MTB-Idle - Member

tomhoward - Member

@mtbidle this. Properly life changing for me. Expensive put worth every penny Constant glucose monitoring without having to finger prick

Cheers, will pass it on

Posted 8 hours ago #
fossy - Member

My son was diagnosed at 14, three years ago. He's not yet into low carb diets, but I'm sure he will do when older.

Just a heads up for those using the Libre. We fund ours as the NHS Area isn't funding them. We have bought an Ambrosia Systems Blucon NightWatch sensor - this sits ontop of the Libre and automatically reads the libre every 5 minutes and sends it to your phone.

We use the Xdrip+ app on my son's phone so it alerts if high or low (knowing that teenagers can't be bothered). The app also sends data to a Night Scout web site (you can set these up yourself with the detailed instructions on-line) which means we can keep an eye on him too.

Really impressed with the Blucon which is a one off cost of about £150 from the US with import duty. It turns the Libre into effectively a CGM.

It's alerted us a few times that he is running low during the night.

Posted 5 hours ago #
fossy - Member

My son has been about 51 HBA1c which isn't bad for a teenager, but since starting college, hit 62. That's when we got the Blucon, as he wasn't even lifting his phone to his arm to scan his bloods. Followup with the Hospital soon, but pretty sure it's back down as he's had better control again, now the phone keeps alarming if he starts carb munching in the evening.

Posted 5 hours ago #
svensvenson - Member

well thanks everyone, it's been an interesting read. So in no particular order:
Thanks Graham s, If I can figure out how that function works I'll get back to you directly.
The freestyle libre patch is great, and I paid for it before it was free, but only stuck one on every so often, mainly to have some data to discuss with my endocrinologue and because it was too expensive to do all the time. The real advantage is you know what happens at night - that and not have to make a pin cushion of your fingers is nice too!
I'm using a stick on pump ( you move it/change it every 3 days) which has some advantages and some constraints... it's called a Mylife omipod or something equally unlikely...
I will look up how to convert my average measures into "English".
last official blood test was 7.0 mmol/l. Which seems to be the target zone in France. I suspect there's probably a few other differences between the way things are done in both countries.

I will let you know how the conversation goes with the doctor and what I decide to do and I guess eventually how it all works out.

thanks everyone. If ever you're around the ventoux and want to find some decent mountain biking - just shout.

Posted 4 hours ago #
GrahamS - Member

OP: MrsGrahamS says: “in general terms, cutting back a bit on carbs is ok (as long as you match your CHO to insulin obviously). There have been a few people struggle with hypos and counter regulation through reduced glycogen stores with very low carb diets. I would discuss with your endocrinologist before making any big changes. “

Posted 3 hours ago #
svensvenson - Member

thanks. it's always nice when you get advised to do exactly what you were intending to do anyway! and I'm not being sarcastic. (for once)

Posted 3 hours ago #
london_lad_liam - Member

Can’t add much as I’ve only been Type 1 - two years

But will be reading with interest....

Only thing I can add is the libre whilst not 100% relative to a finger prick it’s a great device to keep track of BS during the nights (dawn phenomenon and the like) and it will tell you if your on the way up or down. Also great for when your on the go allot ‘bleep’ and tell your where you at also great in mega cold places works through close no taking gloves off.

I have had 3, 2 self funded 1 was a trial from hospital so I shall be hounding the go for a prescription.

Good luck!

Liam

Posted 2 hours ago #
BoardinBob - Member

Reading this with interest. Mrs boardinbob is type 1 and has been for almost 30years. Her glucose levels have been all over the place in the last 6 months for no obvious reason. She can go low carb yet still have her blood sugar up over 20. Yet she could have loads of bread and still have a hypo. Very frustrating and it upsets me to see how upset she gets with it

Posted 2 hours ago #
Patriot1 - Member

I’ve been type 1 for 28 years, I do a hard manual job, I bike a lot too, if I’m brutally honest I think a low carb diet is bloody hard work!, I’m pretty sure I cannot survive off literally my own fat whilst eating carbs only once a week? I wouldn’t like to be in my own company, I reckon I’d end up eating aisle 4 of Tesco’s....
In order to try and figure out how much insulin to take/pump maybe have a couple of days off together (weekend) and do the no carb diet to see how your levels are and adjust dosage accordingly, on the second day you will have more of an idea on dosage. From here on you can start to work out your DAFNE carb counting ratio to work for you..
Just to throw something else into the mix try looking/reading up on “sugar surfing!”

Posted 1 hour ago #
aphex_2k - Member

T1 diabetic, with pump and incredibly sweet tooth here, 20 years +

The tightrope that is "perfect" control....

Had my pump for three years now. Upgrade time soon and I'll be going the CGM route. Hang the expense!

Posted 1 hour ago #

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diabetic type 1, anyone tried a LCHF diet, or know someone who has?

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