And we're off for another multiple pages of bollocks topic 
The best answers were on the first page, cheap quickish car, trackdays and some time with an instructor should sort you out.
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How to become a "tasty" driver....?
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Posted 1 hour ago #
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Would now be a good time for some troy queef?
Coming in code red to an especially testing series of esses I rolled off the hot pedal to see what was what and all at once the Tivoli’s taut tail came into play. I simply caught it with a dab of oppo and I was away.
The Ssangyong Tivoli 1.6 EX is a bitch. And I spanked it.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
Now I love a face-full of dong as much as the next man, but given the option of tall tales or willy waving then I'm with Maxpork on this.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
I'd asssumed perpendicular realising you probably meant 90° and said as such, Maxtorque. All my reply is based on perpendicular hence the stalled engine comment. I was being the opposite of pedantic, correcting an obvious confusion and replying accordingly.
Care to answer the questions about these "years of rallying" and all the other credentials you've posted. Just a few verifiable results to indicate that you were in the driving seat of a rally car on a special stage in a competition rather than thrashing the service barge.
So give up on the smileys, drop the references to willy waving and:
put up or shut up.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
Would now be a good time for some troy queef?
If the rest of his writing is like that, he's well named.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
On the road? Why?
Because roads can be fun to drive on, it is not always dangerous to drive a car beyond its limit of grip.
Besides which knowing how to control a car that is sliding will help you if you get in to that situation.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
This is the best post on this thread!
goldfish24 - Member
Since energy is proportional to the square of speed it goes up with the square of speed... not exponentially.
Sorry, I can’t not comment on that!
You should have kept schtum...
Cougar - Troy Queef is a spoof car reviewer article on the sniffpetrol website.
It's quite amusing and does a good job of taking the pee out of the 'Evo' style of motoring journalism.Posted 1 hour ago # -
There's a big difference in knowing how to control a sliding car and driving on a public road in a manner likely to cause that slide. The first case is using that knowledge to increase safety, the second is decreasing it.
If you want to deliberately push the limits of your car or yourself then the only safe(r) place to do that is on a race track not on public roads where there are too many variables outside your control.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
Besides which knowing how to control a car that is sliding will help you if you get in to that situation.
Unless you are doing it day in and day out it probably won't.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
Right here goes. I've got a spare hour, so i'll tediously type out what i said yesterday, but make sure i do in such a way that the STW pedants can understand:
1) A Mk1 RS focus is a fwd, reasonably powerful (230bhp for the time, project was started in 2002, that was more power than any other 2wd small European market passenger car) Front Wheel Drive (FWD) "Hot" hot hatch.
2) Unlike modern high power FWD cars, it didn't use any particularly clever suspension layout to try to tame the high tractive effort that it could generate at the front axle. As such, front tyre slip (and hence grip) would vary enormously depending on the engine torque applied at any given moment by the engine. Hence, it would understeer heavily underpower, and to counter than effect, and provide a quick lap time and "fun" handling balance, the car relied on it's rear suspension to carry most of the dynamic cornering loads. ie the rear tyres get loaded with the lateral loads, the front ones with the tractive loads. What this long winded and complex explanation all boils down to is that the car has a yaw stability and rotational acceleration that is highly dependant upon the torque the driver is applying. Lift off at high speed, mass transfer loads the front tyres, unloads the rears, there is little tractive force, so front tyres grip like crazy, rears loose grip, and long story short, you're experiencing a very rapid yaw.
3) Whilst travelling at around 85mph, the car requires approx 50kW of wheel power, which is around 1/3 of engine BMEP (Brake Mean Effective Pressure) i Top gear, or about 1/4 of engine BMEP in 4th gear. That tractive effort is being applied continuously to the front tyres, and hence the front suspension, even when the lateral acceleration is zero. ie travelling at a constant speed. It is generating tyre slip, even if you can't feel it, and limiting the lateral capability of those front tyres
4) The rear upright that broke was a prototype part. The cars on the development trip were a mixture of AP, CP and one PP1 prototypes. The AP level car i was driving had a hand modified upright, used to stiffen the intersection between the 'control blade' (part of the rear suspension member than connects the upright longitudinally to the chassis) and the wheel bearing carrier. Unbeknownst to us at that time, the loading applied by the much larger wheel and tyre package, and the much higher rear lateral stiffness and wheel rate lead to small cracks appearing around the wheel bearing location Circlip. The particular car i was driving was inspected and signed off by the Ford Dunton Prototype workshop before the trip, but it is likely those small cracks were present during the inspection, and missed (file under #S**t Happens)
5) Just before failure, i had accelerated to around 85mph, in third gear, and moved off a slip road and into L1 of the Autostrada. The road was reasonably traffic free, and our 3 car convoy maintained good separation from each other, meaning i had a nice big "bubble" in which to drive. I was sat at consant throttle at 85mph in 3th gear, about to shift up into top, when there was a loud "thud" and a large vibration from the rear offside of the vehicle. Almost immediately (<1sec) the car yawed heavily in an anticlockwise direction. As suggested by other posters, braking, or even lifting off the throttle would have resulted in an immediate spin and corresponding complete loss of directional control. (see section 2) again if you don't understand why). The only way to counteract a massive rear slip angle is to immediately (over)load the front tyres to a similar slip angle,hence i floored the throttle (and in 85mph 3rd gear, with the engine at around 5300trpm i effectively had pretty much full power availiable). Turning into the slide, full throttle created an opposing yaw acceleration that slowed and (luckily) reversed the initial yaw. I'd estimate the car got to around 60deg of positive yaw (ok, i typed 180deg earlier, when i mean't 90, but for this "long winded account" lets make sure the pedants can't pick up any other pointless fact to womble on about and miss the actual point of the whole story). At this point, the car was still doing about 75mph (no, the vehicle did not accelerate above 85 because the tyre drag from 3 tyres at >50% slip is enourmous, despite full engine power being applied).
6) Now came the tricky bit, to get it all facing the right way again! Note for Pedants: I previous typed "i don't know how i did it" not meaning i didn't ACTUALLY know how i did it, but to highlight how difficult it is to get a perfect compensating handwheel and throttle input of this magnitude, and at that velocity applied and removed without leading to a secondary oscillation. As the yaw angle reduced, i spun off the handwheel input, but the yaw rate at this point was probably in the order of 300deg/sec, ie massive. so thanks to a degree of luck, and some intrinsic skill, in that split second (actually around 200ms) i managed to recover the vehicle to a nearly zero yaw rate, facing straight(ish) down the middle of the road. That action also caused the rear wheel, which had only been held on by the rear brake caliper, to part company with the vehicle (tearing off the rear outer arch as it went, which was carbon fibre on those prototypes). Without the wonky wheel, there was only a small destabilising lateral force remaining, so i was able to coast carefully to the shoulder and stop (the brake pedal was "long" because the rear hydraulic system had been compromised when the caliper snapped off the upright assy.
Have i missed anything? Got anything wrong? Would someone who wasn't there, has no idea who i am or what i do (or have done for 25 years now) like to bring up some pointless, pedantic fact to further derail this thread?
BTW to make up for the long, tedious nature of this post, here's a bonus picture of myself and Neil Briggs from Ford (now of BAC Mono fame) at the stop of Stelvio with CP6, an RS in possession of it's full complement of wheels! (Neil and i developed and signed off the RS's chassis dynamics)
Posted 56 minutes ago # -
Cougar - Troy Queef is a spoof car reviewer article on the sniffpetrol website.
Aha! Poe's Law in action.
Posted 53 minutes ago # -
BTW, to remind most thread readers who will have fallen asleep by now, the entire point of my original post was to suggest that Competition or Dynamic vehicle handling skills are not necessarily 'useless' om the road. (They may be rarely useful, but the one time you need em, you may be grateful of having them)
Posted 48 minutes ago # -
Yup quadratic not exponential.
Just keep it down on the public roads guys. The longer you live the more of the "tasty drivers" around you you'll see get it wrong. Me and my co-drivers were lucky enough to walk away from me getting it wrong with bumps and bruises.
My introduction to the downsides of tasty driving started at four when I woke up under a car having been thrown through the rear window - a spin, car hit bank backwards, I landed on the road and the car went over me.
The neighbour's daughter was killed on Monkspath's mad mile by her boyfirend before the M42 cut it in half. A school friend hit a Jaguar head on overtaking, the Jag was travelling faster than he expected, three months in hospital. A driving enthusiast friend killed a guy on a pedestrain crossing. Two motorbiking mates killed their respective girlfriends without anyone else's help in roadworks and on a bend. A friend who used to commute over a bridge too fast every day eventually hit the bridge and died. That's just the ones close to me.
All that misery, all that grief, regret, rebuilding lives with shattered bodies and/or tortured minds.
Buy a mountain bike and rag that, do a track or rally day. Look after your fellow road users.
Posted 38 minutes ago # -
here's a bonus picture of myself and Neil Briggs
you lot might be the world's greatest drivers, but you know **** all about taking a photo Posted 35 minutes ago # -
er, given that i'm in the photo, i think it should be obvious i didn't take it yeah???
Posted 30 minutes ago # -
Obviously, shame you didn't think to say to the guy with the camera "er, sun behind you mate?" though. Team effort & all that.
Posted 28 minutes ago # -
But have you competed in a rally, Maxtorque? And how did you do?
You're the engineer, the tech, and you had a lucky escape in Focus perhaps because you were at the legal limit on the autostrada and there was lots of space.
Posted 26 minutes ago # -
zilog6128
Obviously, shame you didn't think to say to the guy with the camera "er, sun behind you mate?" though. Team effort & all that.probably a lucky escape for you lot actually, i'm not exactly photogenic.....
Posted 20 minutes ago #
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