gordimhor
I will get back to you on this - needs a bit of time to look at - I'm still bashing away at te keyboard in between cooking stuff
Chat Forum
EU Referendum - are you in or out?
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Posted 9 hours ago #
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Here in Australia there's a new range of premium popcorn that is red chilli flavour. it's just the stuff for reading this.
oh, and don't hold your breath for a trade deal, you got nothing we want, we got nothing you can afford.
Posted 8 hours ago # -
Official trade data suggests an alternative view
Posted 8 hours ago # -
Posted 7 hours ago # -
Gordimhor
From the act:(1)The Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government are a permanent part of the United Kingdom's constitutional arrangements.
(2)The purpose of this section is, with due regard to the other provisions of this Act, to signify the commitment of the Parliament and Government of the United Kingdom to the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.
(3)In view of that commitment it is declared that the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government are not to be abolished except on the basis of a decision of the people of Scotland voting in a referendum.
But
This section does not affect the power of the Parliament of the United Kingdom to make laws for Scotland.
[F1(8)But it is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament
Can';t find the bit about human rights in the act
From the scottish government site
Background
Human rights is a subject devolved to Scotland by the Scotland Act 1998. The Scottish Parliament also has competence to observe and implement international human rights treaties. We work within that legal framework.
In Scotland, civil and political rights are protected by the Human Rights Act 1998 and provisions in the Scotland Act 1998. These rights come from the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR).
The Human Rights Act 1998 incorporated the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) into UK law. It means that public organisations, such as the government, councils and the police, must protect and abide by human rights. If human rights have been breached, cases can be taken to UK courts.
The Scotland Act 1998 ensures that laws passed by the Scottish Parliament can be challenged and overturned by the courts if they are not compatible with rights identified in the ECHR. Scottish Government Ministers have 'no power to act' in a way that breaches these ECHR rights.
The Scottish Commission for Human Rights Act 2006 created the Scottish Human Rights Commission (SHRC). The SHRC is an independent public body that promotes and protects the human rights of everyone in Scotland.
Scotland's approach to human rights is also governed by international law. This has developed since the United Nations adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948. Seven major UN human rights treaties, along with eight Council of Europe human rights treaties, currently apply to Scotland.
Posted 7 hours ago # -
bigrich » Here in Australia ...................
we got nothing you can afford.
Not quite true. You can still produce lamb and beef more cheaply than we can and ship it half way round the world and still make a profit. That would appeal to those in the UK really pushing for Brexit (i.e. those with enough money to benefit from very lax tax rules once out of the EU) as it would put our marginal hill farmers out of business and free up all those lovely properties in the countryside for 2nd homes.
Posted 7 hours ago # -
On the UK oz trade as they will have a deal with the eu first will the UK have a strong bargaining position one of out major imports is pharmaceuticals, if there is a shift of production to the eu that could have a big impact, then automotive well if jag etc move production that's another one gone.
The current $ rate here certainly makes importing from the UK/eu good for us but the eu will probably cover most things.
The UK is a good in to the eu for a lot of Australian comanedue to the shared language and culture but they a looking to Dublin now. Even though a big proportion of dual citizenship is with the UK, combined eu will beat that. Heaps more ties across Europe than the UK now.
Posted 6 hours ago # -
Theresa May has been hit with a double Brexit blow as the EU toughened up its terms for a transition period and Norway privately warned Brussels that giving in to the UK’s demands for a “special” trade deal could force it to rip up its own agreements with the bloc.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/15/norway-may-rip-up-eu-deal-over-uk-brexit-demands
A paper on Michel Barnier’s demands for the transition period, leaked to the Guardian, reveals that the EU plans to insist on the free movement of people throughout the transition period and the inclusion of people moving to the UK before 31 December 2020 in the terms of an agreement on rights for nationals from the rest of Europe post-Brexit.
The UK had at one time wanted the agreement on citizens to be limited to people who moved to the UK before 29 March 2017, when Theresa May triggered article 50.
Downing Street’s Brexit adviser, Olly Robbins, suggested in a recent cabinet meeting that the UK would operate on three levels post-Brexit with the EU, with some sectors being entirely free from Brussels regulation while others were fully converged to allow frictionless trade. In a third “basket” of sectors, the two sides could share the same goals but “achieve them through different means”.
One senior EU official said: “It’s what we always thought the UK would be going for and that’s why we have been quite clear that we don’t think that it is on.”
Posted 6 hours ago # -
One of Theresa May’s new ministers has claimed the UK’s plan to drop the EU charter of fundamental rights after Brexit would help avoid an “extra layer” of human rights, contradicting the government’s assurance that no protections would be lost.
Posted 6 hours ago # -
Thanks for the background research TJ. It provides some reassurance.
Posted 5 hours ago # -
Its not as clear cut as I thought tho in that Westminster has reserved powers to make law in devolved areas but with the human rights being incorporated into scots law I really cannot see how they could get rid of it
Posted 5 hours ago # -
TJ it's reassuring that there is currently a requirement for a referendum in Scotland if Westminster wants to abolish the Scottish Parliament.
However the Scottish Parliament is unable to make any legislation that does not comply with the ECHR. Because it is not legally "sovereign". Westminster on the other hand is legally sovereign and can make legislation which doesn't comply with the ECHR. This sovereign status would allow Westminster to repeal the current Scotland Act and remove the requirement for a referendum should they wish to do so. I have no doubt that the political fallout from this would be enormous but it remains a possibility.Posted 5 hours ago # -
could westminster take the convention on human rights out of scots law tho? that would cause a huge fuss if they tried and I am not sure from my reading they have the power
Posted 5 hours ago # -
The current government is so weak they can't afford to get rid of anyone, no matter how crazy they are.
Posted 5 hours ago # -
@welsh those of us “with enough money to favour Brexit” will always pay a premium for British lamb, I always buy British and Welsh in particular. IMO what’s going to happen with EU lamb is it will increasingly be replaced by NZ etc, so that's cheaper stuff used in curry houses etc.
@big you might want to ask your Government why they’ve said they are so keen on a deal with the UK then.
People need to understand our vice of buying more than we sell is a virtue when it comes to trade deals, we are hooked on imports and customers like us are hard to find.
Posted 4 hours ago # -
No one is proposing to abolish the Scottish Parliament. Remember it was Cameron amd the Tories which granted you a binding Indy Referendum.
Posted 4 hours ago # -
Jamba looks like your trade deal is getting further and further away
Posted 4 hours ago # -
jambalaya - MemberNo one is proposing to abolish the Scottish Parliament. Remember it was Cameron amd the Tories which granted you a binding Indy Referendum.
actually its a serious idea in the tory party and there is going to be a huge fight over human rights.
Posted 4 hours ago # -
So far as I can see the ECHR applies in Two ways in Scotland 1 As it is directly written into the Scotland Act affecting the Scottish government
2 The same way as it applies in England affecting all other public bodies.Posted 4 hours ago # -
TJ see TMH’s post, to the contrary it getting closer. The electoral mess in Germany will help us as the EU cannot do anything to upset Germany and no deal would hurt Germany very badly indeed.
Of course a deal will include services as a deal without will be rejected. It is also worth noting that the EU could not replicate those services any time soon. See Deutsche Bank’s statements, in the event of a WTO Brexit they mive just a handfull of low/mid level jobs. What does the EU gain by losing the whole free trade deal for so little benefit ?
@Poop Front Nationale’s support amongst the young is very strong. Seeing “right wing” politics as something for the “elderly” is very dangerous. If I may say so its like all the critism I got on here for saying 4 years ago immigration was a major issue, people ignored it and it came back to bite.
Posted 4 hours ago # -
@big you might want to ask your Government why they’ve said they are so keen on a deal with the UK then.
Talk is cheap.... It's a nice little soundbite they can use, of course they would like a deal, a good deal, one that is good for Australia that gets Aussie wine into the UK and all that. However the EU deal will be a priority as it's a much bigger and more important market and it would make sense to see who leaves the UK for the EU before getting too far down your negotiations (which will take years not months)Posted 4 hours ago # -
I don't see ~THMs posts - not worth looking at.
A deal on financial services is not going to happen on anything like the terms you want and indeed no deal is far more likely.
Germany on all sides politically and industially is the strongest against any deal.
Sorry jamba - wishful thinking is not cutting it. You need to get out of your brexit bubble into the real world. apart from anything else there is no time. they on't have to replicate the expertise just pinch it. No way on earth are they going to allow shells to operate. all the mechanisms have to be under EU jurisdiction. this has been made perfectly clear.
Why do you keep on claiming things will happen that have been categorically ruled out ?
Posted 4 hours ago # -
The UK will be asked to make substantial indefinite contributions to the EU budget after Brexit in exchange for British banks having access to Europe’s financial markets, under plans being considered in Brussels.
German government officials told the Bloomberg news agency that a trade deal with the UK could only include financial services if the UK makes payments to Brussels and continues to follow EU law.
the independent 5 days ago
Now may is never going to agree to that but it is essential for the EU. so no deal on financial service on anything like the basis you think it will happen
Its been categorically rules out by all major players in europe
Posted 4 hours ago # -
But he re-stated that with Britain leaving, its “financial service providers can no longer enjoy the benefits of a passport to the single market nor those of a system of generalised equivalence of standards”.
Barnier
Posted 4 hours ago # -
Not quite true. You can still produce lamb and beef more cheaply than we can and ship it half way round the world and still make a profit. That would appeal to those in the UK really pushing for Brexit (i.e. those with enough money to benefit from very lax tax rules once out of the EU) as it would put our marginal hill farmers out of business and free up all those lovely properties in the countryside for 2nd homes.
Which makes it all the more perplexing as to why they voted to leave. Most of my clients, I'm based in Brecon, are hill farmers who are now wondering what they have done.
Posted 4 hours ago # -
Good to see Borris has decided to take the bus out for a run
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42698981
The controversial claim that the UK sends £350m a week to the EU was a "gross underestimate", Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has said.
He told the Guardian the UK's contribution was already £362m a week and would rise to £438m by the end of the post-Brexit transition period.
Vote Leave's claim that £350m could go to the NHS instead was hotly disputed during the EU referendum.
Labour accused Mr Johnson of returning "to the scene of his previous crimes".
A campaign bus used by Vote Leave, including Mr Johnson himself, during the referendum campaign was emblazoned with the slogan: "We send the EU £350 million a week - let's fund our NHS instead."
It was widely criticised because £350m per week is an approximate sum for the UK's "gross contribution" to Brussels.
It doesn't take account of the country's rebate of £75m a week which means that the true amount leaving the Treasury's coffers is significantly lower.
Seems there are still a few residents of the fantasy island. Guess it's better than trying to sort out any of the real problems or coming up with real solutions, next week I expect him to suggest we put the lot on the next big Euro millions draw.Posted 53 minutes ago #
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