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I'm serious!
You choose not to believe in God, but still believe there is some form of 'meaning' to be searched for.
A physical thing, a true understanding of the mechanics behind the universe, or something 'spiritual'?
If the latter, you've replaced a belief in God with something almost indistinguishable.
Which matters to you and not the person who forms such a belief.
I know.
I'm interested how we reconcile seemingly unreconcileable concepts.
It seems to be a universal human trait.
slackalice - MemberYeah okay, so jimjam, are you feeling the Love?
No. I'm sitting here wondering why the old testament god was such an asshole.
I'm interested how we reconcile seemingly unreconcileable concepts.
It seems to be a universal human trait.
You just answered your own question there!
No. I'm sitting here wondering why the old testament god was such an asshole.
Fair enough, crack on.
I'm ok with the why, it's the how I'm more interested in.
Thanks also to the mods, who I presume have at the very least had a word or two with the main protagonists and as such have enabled an environment for more reasoned discussion.
I appreciate the thanks, but it's without justification. Aside from the suspension of blatant trolls and the professionally offensive, we've not intervened beyond public warnings. Maybe we've grown as a forum. If I've personally had anything to do with that then it's been in public rather than via the hammer.
Without faith and with scientific evidence at hand, death is truly scary.
It's really not. And the older I get, and the nearer death gets, the less I worry about it. I went to a Catholic funeral recently, and it seemed to me that the whole religion was based on a fear of death.
So, another question for the OP: Why are you so frightened of dying?
Could you tell me what's spiritual about it?
Well this bloke called Jesus had a mate called Yaakov and they did some interesting stuff that people wrote about. The writings ended up in a books that lots of people read. Anyhow after Jesus got crucified for all the good he was doing, Yaakov saw his resurected mate and decided to carry on with the do-gooding, some people reckon he visited Spain just over the hill from where we live. He went back home though and got killed by the same lot as had crucified Jesus but as he wasn't from the same genetic stock as Jesus he stayed dead. He was quite popular though, even dead, so some people reckon his followers took his body all the way back to Spain and buried him.
He still has followers today, such as that idiot walking and they go on long walks in the spirit of Yaakov's travels and this is good for their own spirits.
Some people aren't very good at this spirtual stuff, I'm a real klutz, many geologists like me are, though some see studying geology as studying the work of Jesus's dad and one geologist friend now has a job in spirituality a bit like Yaakov.
Anyhow, in things spirituality that track in the photo is one of the go-to places, a bit like Mecca or Jurusalem. The problem is that it's quite long, well as long as you live from the end which is quite short if you live there but for the rest of us quite long (in fact people who live there often go a long away then walk back so they don't miss out on walking to the end). You might find a dirt track a bit basic compared with Notre Dame de Paris, but if your brain has any capacity at all for things spiritual then you'll find out.
I'm still a klutz at this spirituality lark despite months of walking along that track, a spiritually enlightened agnostic klutz, an improving klutz though. And I smile when people refer to me as a pèlerin, peregrino, pilger, pilgrim etc., don't laugh, you might be happy to be called a pilgrim one day. ULTREIA ! SUSEIA !
The will to extend oneself for the benefit of ones own and another's personal growth.
Interesting. I wonder how common that definition is?
Do you believe that there is anything that isn't part of 'the physical realm'?
No. As a physicist, the physical world is defined as everything. So if it exists anywhere, it's physical. For me, describing emotions, personalities etc as chemical interactions does not diminish it at all. There is immense beauty in the workings of a complex machine, and our brains are beautifully complex.
Rusty Spanner - Member
I'm ok with the why, it's the how I'm more interested in.
Okay, as we're all still feeling the love ( apart from jimjam, but we love him anyway), I'll disclose how I reconcile my belief...
Which, IIRC, came about from various sources, one being that once I realised that I make my own world, mainly through my intent and attitude - or put simply, smile at the world and the world smiles back - and took responsibility for doing so.
Another realisation was that we all experience the world and thereby the Universe in our own way and all different, so which one is true? Two people can go bikepacking for a weekend and ask each of them to recount their trip and guaranteed there will be differences and variations in the two. Both of which are equally valid and true.
In quantum physics, it has long been noted that the observer changes the reality, which for me also means that how I experience my existence in the Universe and what I hold to be true, will be true for me and so long as I maintain my intent and attitude, then I am also free to define my own Universe from what I see and experience. Other people will experience their existence and interpret it it their way, which is still true for them, so I do not expect them to share my belief and I choose not to share theirs, but both are valid and true.
So, as I said before, be free and give yourself permission to make your own world and take responsibility for your experience, it's your truth! Furthermore, we are very very fortunate to exist as a human being, where we have the intellect and a range of complex emotions that enable us to do so.
I agree with the pair of you, but I don't see anything spiritual in your posts directly above.
That is basically the same conclusion at which I arrived.
Without faith and with scientific evidence at hand, death is truly scary.
Nah, it's not. As a wise man once said, "when you dead, you dead".
The time after your death is no different, to you, than the time before you were born.
Edukator - Reformed Troll
Well this bloke called Jesus had a mate called Yaakov....
I do enjoy a nice pilgrimage.
Have fun.
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Thanks for that, Slackalice.
Rusty Spanner - Member
I agree with the pair of you, but I don't see anything spiritual in your posts directly above.
Probably not, but your question was 'how do you reconcile...'
But then again, I'm finding keeping up with your sneak edits and responses is keeping me on my toes! 
molgrips - Member
The will to extend oneself for the benefit of ones own and another's personal growth.Interesting. I wonder how common that definition is?
Very for those that have read A Road Less Travelled.
Cheers cougar. HTH
Probably not, but your question was 'how do you reconcile...'
My question was how do WE reconcile....me included.
I'm not being judgemental, I'm just interested.
But then again, I'm finding keeping up with your sneak edits and responses is keeping me on my toes!
Sorry.
It's not malicious or sneaky.
I'm just attempting to clarify and remove as much ambiguity as possible.
Let me know if there's anything I've changed that you'd like me to explain.
Have we all listens to Prof Brian Cox chatting to Russell Brand?
https://www.russellbrand.com/podcast/ep-43-professor-brian-cox-god-universe-meaning/#main
You could always start your own religion?
No, not at all RS.
Rusty Spanner - MemberMy question was how do WE reconcile....me included.
I'm not being judgemental, I'm just interested.
You are free to make up your own reconciliation, so long as it is true for you. We each of us make our own reality, if we allow ourselves to and our intent is good.
As for your other question, now gone, concerning where is the spirituality in all of that... For me, refer back to my definition of Love. See also me being responsible for my experience/reality, my truth and in fact my post. If I want to make my reality one where I believe I have lives between lives, that my soul is a journey and this existence is part of that, with lessons to learn, karma to experience and that belief makes me a happier, more content, loving and compassionate person, then I give myself every right to do so.
Going out on a limb here, before I retire the day, I'll share my definition of what some people refer to as God, which I consider to be another aspect of spirituality. I believe in the Universe because I am very much a part and product of it, but why is it here? Why does it exist? My belief is that it does so because it has a will to exist and, by default, so does everything within the Universe because it wills it so, just as it is. If the Universe didn't have the will to exist, it wouldn't be here. This 'will' by the way is not our common interpretation of a conscious thought from a sentient thing, it is the ethereal will to give and there's an infinite amount of it. This is my higher power/God, whatever and however others may term it.
Of course, you are free to find your own and it/they will be valid and true for you 
EDIT: thanks miketually, saved for listening to tomorrow.
I think the universe is a part of something else. But what? It's impossible to say. Possibly un-knowable.
Flatland is a good book for getting in touch with the unknowable, and then another book called Flatterland written about the original.
If the Universe is infinite and/or there is an infinite number of Multiverses does that mean there must be an infinite number of Gods ?
Without faith and with scientific evidence at hand, death is truly scary.
I have seen hundreds of people die ( its my job to look after dying people). I have seen no difference in attitudes to dying from religious or non religious.
Without faith and with scientific evidence at hand, death is truly scary.
I am not scared of dying and having watched my father die was not scared at that time either (if was obviously a horrible experience but I didn't feel scared at any time)
You are free to make up your own reconciliation, so long as it is true for you
Exactly. Some go to a religion for that others go to science, I just don't find myself needing an answer.
So are we going to get answers or is this thread just for the usuals agreeing with each other?
centralscrutinizer - Member
If the Universe is infinite and/or there is an infinite number of Multiverses does that mean there must be an infinite number of Gods ?
If you believe in a god, it exists as a construct.
So yes.
An infinite number of beings all defining their own god.
Plus all us heathens, of course.
So are we going to get answers or is this thread just for the usuals agreeing with each other?
Pretty sure apologetics (if that's what this is, not entirely sure?) takes some time. Especially with so many diverse questions.
wilburt - MemberSo are we going to get answers or is this thread just for the usuals agreeing with each other?
If we buy the book. Obvs
But how do you know the book contains the right answers?
The book will contain SR's opinion.
Your own opinion on this topic is equally valid.
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