I know the design has its flaws and the looks are marmite, but they're desired by many, so you'd think there'd be rivals offering slight variations. Just a thought that I woke up to this morning...
Bike Forum
Are Orange the only two-bearing frames?
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Posted 5 hours ago #
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Santa cruz heckler & superlight used to be
Posted 5 hours ago # -
They used to be very common. Santa Cruz especially, but also Trek, Gary Fisher, Giant.
Posted 4 hours ago # -
They used to be pretty popular when manufacturers didn’t know any better. Now they’ve had a bit of time to refine/improve their design, not so much
Orange haven’t quite caught up yet
Posted 4 hours ago # -
People like Tom above have a perception that the simple single pivot like orange is not as good as more 'modern' linkage designs but this is plain wrong. Every design is a compromise of sorts, anti rise, anti squat etc and oranges are no different. Orange have experimented with linkages but have always felt the benefits aren't worth it. They've had donkeys years to refine their pivot and shock placement also remember.
They supposedly suffer from brake jack but this has a benefit of preserving geo under braking and stopping the front end diving and getting steep in head angle. Starling cycles are the same design and have had rave reviews - dirt reckoned it was the fastest bike they'd tested. I think a big reason companies use a linkage design is partly technical and being able to better manipulate the suspension characteristics than a single pivot but partly down to (wrong) attitudes like Tom's that they're outdated and therefore won't sell. Not an Orange fan boy btw. These days suspension design is low on my list of priorities in a bike.
Posted 2 hours ago # -
I've seen enough people winning races on oranges to know that a single pivot is never going to hold me back.
Posted 2 hours ago # -
Everyone else has moved on. Even orange have tried. I'm sure you can make it work, just like Porsche make the 911 work, but there are better* solutions.
*I appreciate 'better' is a relative term and different things are better for different situations, just talking in general
Posted 2 hours ago # -
How many bikes do Orange export?
Posted 2 hours ago # -
Not defending Orange here but I think the term 'moved on' is wrong. As you say yourself they have tried other designs but have decided that for them it wasn't worth it. Everything is a compromise, even the most modern linkage design. Fine if you don't like orange or starling's design but don't try and say it's worse than other designs. It's just a different set of compromises.
Posted 2 hours ago # -
Even if the design principles have some disadvantages, I'm sure they're so slight to the average rider, the benefits of simplicity do it for me. I'm sure they tune the shock to compensate enough.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
I've seen enough people winning races on oranges to know that a single pivot is never going to hold me back.
How many recently?
I’ve seen plenty of DH races won on 75mm travel (and less, even rigid) hardtails with Cantis/v brakes. They were the best that were available at the time, but we moved on....
Posted 1 hour ago # -
I long coveted a 5. Bought a cheap 2007.
Even compared to my fatty it feels slow to pedal.
How it was voted bike of the year I don't know.
It is however a bike I can ride through the very worst of mud and just leave to fester in the shed while my super speedy Anthem hibernates in the loft.Posted 1 hour ago # -
Depends what you want from your suspension doesn't it?
I don't like pedal kick back on technical climbs, and I don't like suspension stiffening under power on technical climbs, because one steals composure and the other steals traction.
Some people like these characteristics because it makes the bike feel taught under acceleration and more responsive like a hardtail. Reduced compliance and traction isn't always going to be an issue if the ground conditions aren't as marginal. Some will say you can run bigger, softer tyres to compensate for reduced traction, but IME this only goes so far.
Posted 1 hour ago # -
In a market where a lot of bikes all look the same I think it's great that orange do it their own way. To the average rider I doubt suspension makes a lot of difference. Bike maintenance on the other hand (or lack of it) probably does.
Never had an orange, always wanted one. A lot of friends ride them and they have been bomb proof and reliable and just as fast as their other bikes or friends.
I don't understand the orange marmite thing, especially not on the new range. In fact the only thing that I hate is the price.
Posted 42 minutes ago # -
As I plod through the mud on my Hope equipped Orange I just feel so Englsh.
Posted 40 minutes ago # -
Rowan Sorrell is Errrrrrr fairly quick on orange single pivot, from what I can see.
Posted 38 minutes ago # -
Santa cruz heckler & superlight used to be
Looks like the Heckler still is..
Posted 37 minutes ago # -
Science Officer - if the suspension is so bad on them, how come Starling have come out with glowing reviews everywhere they've been tested - a man in a shed with no marketing budget so he can't be paying all the media outlets for good reviews. He can't keep up with demand so arguably doesn't need more orders as he currently stands). Don't forget that a lot of other 'modern' bikes are single pivot as well, all the linkages do is change the leverage ratio, the basic principle is the same.
As I alluded to in my eaerlier post. The really bad suspension designs (urt anyone?) have been weedled out by now so it's about compromise and priorities for the individual now.
Posted 33 minutes ago # -
I've not said it's bad. Please read my comments again.
Posted 21 minutes ago # -
It's strange that the majority of motorbikes are single pivot.
The simplicity of a single pivot bike does appeal.
Posted 7 minutes ago # -
I think the main problem with true single pivot designs is that it’s much harder to market them. The industry has done a very good job of convincing MTBers that suspension can’t work well without multi-pivot kinematics.
In reality there are still plenty of single pivot bikes out there but almost all of them use a linkage to drive the shock, so they look like multi-pivots - marketing win!
Posted 4 minutes ago #
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