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1. Malvern Rider - Member 

   If you say you're a certain religion but you'll turn a blind-eye to the bits you don't fancy, then what's the point?

   If it stops (or at least offers a disincentive for) you thieving, murdering folk or cheating on your spouse etc - then surely the other bits are conveniently covered by asking 'forgiveness'? Don't you still get a ride to paradise with Dad? I'm not a believer but I can atleast see the attraction of truly believing in eternal life with endless pie and gold. Plus a handy 'guide-book' whilst alive. Not forgetting the community benefits and social influence. Martyrdom opportunities for those inclined. The list is surely endless. It's complicated and simple. It's good and sinful. It's empowering, powerful, influential, it's also persecuted and weak. It's simultaneously eternal and under threat. Covers all bases as far as I can see?

   My Brexit-loving buddy (driving at the time) was as delighted as I was saddened. Make of that what you will. No I'm not saying all Brexiteers are hateful bigots. But there is a trend.
   Pot, kettle...

   'Saddened' and 'hateful bigotry' are not the same thing. Noting a trend neither. Happy to discuss.

   Posted 1 hour ago #
2. PJM1974 - Member 

   Ordinarily, I don't believe that anyone has the right to criticise the nature of a relationship between two consenting adults. So long as the relationship isn't abusive or exploitative then everything is all good so far as I'm concerned.

   But Tim Farron as an MP is a lawmaker and politician in a representative democracy. His job is to sift through the various arguments and adopt a compromise which satisfies legislation, party policy and constituents. There will be times when a politician has to back a policy that is at odds with their own belief (witness the large number of Conservative remainers backing Brexit, for example).

   I get that it's difficult to separate one's own beliefs with a political standpoint, especially as we demand (but rarely ever get) politicians with personal integrity. I don't have much time for Farron's personal views on gay marriage, but at least he's able to recognise that his views aren't necessarily in step with the modern world.

   As for the homophobic graffiti, I'm shocked and horrified that it's a thing in 2017. I honestly thought that we'd gotten over this.

   Posted 1 hour ago #
3. mefty - Member 

   However, his defence that the media would be uninterested in his nuanced viewpoint about homosexuality is feeble.

   Perhaps, but absolutely correct, it was a grubby line of questioning.

   Tim's issue is that Evangelical Christianity is incompatible with many issues on the Liberal Left hence his stumbling nonsense over this

   But not the Liberal tradition in this country, the non conformist church was one of the main breeding grounds for modern liberal thought.

   He made an very good speech at the end of last year, which you can read here. He comes across as a very thoughful, brave and decent man. Yet people on here use perjorative terms about him, which says a lot more about them than him.

   Posted 1 hour ago #
4. tjagain - Member 

   Mefty - anyone who thinks it is right that public servants can discriminate against gay people is an illiberal bigot. And Farron voted for exactly that. He is in favour of the state discriminating against gay folk.

   Posted 1 hour ago #
5. mefty - Member 

   I am not really interested in your views, it has been quite self evident what you are for some considerable time.

   Posted 48 minutes ago #

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6. Rusty Spanner - Member 

   mefty - Member

   .... it was a grubby line of questioning.
   

   I agree.

   But I feel it was valid, as it highlighted his willingness to lie about his personal convictions.

   He made an very good speech at the end of last year, which you can read here. He comes across as a very thoughful, brave and decent man. Yet people on here use perjorative terms about him, which says a lot more about them than him.

   He's a self confessed liar and hypocrite.
   People don't like that and voice their opinions in a robust and sometimes unpleasant manner.
   It's human nature, what people do, especially on the internet.

   Crucially, are people reacting any differently to him BECAUSE the subject of his lie involves his religious belief?
   If so, why?

   I'm sorry if any of my comments have caused offence, I genuinely liked the bloke for a while.

   Posted 22 minutes ago #
7. outofbreath - Member 

   it was a grubby line of questioning.

   A fair question would be: "Do you beleive that gay people should be discriminated against in any way whatsoever."

   But I feel it was valid, as it highlighted his willingness to lie about his personal convictions.

   It's a question designed to force a lie because effectively 'sin' has two meanings. None of us could answer it truthfully. If I ask you: "Is gluttony a sin" you have to say yes, it's one of the deadly ones, but then your opponents can represent that as you making a value judgment about over-eaters.

   I suppose if you're an atheist you can get out of it by saying 'It's a sin, but I don't beleive in the concept of sins.' but even that could be reported on front pages as "Ruusty Spanner claims 'it's a sin'".

   Posted 4 minutes ago #
8. mefty - Member 

   But I feel it was valid, as it highlighted his willingness to lie about his personal convictions.

   He ended up lying because it was all the media were interested in talking about and in an election campaign where his party was struggling to get coverage on the issues that they believed were important, which this certainly wasn't. I think that is pretty understandable and you have to recognise the reality of modern politics and the importance of media coverage.

   People don't like that and voice their opinions in a robust and sometimes unpleasant manner.
   It's human nature, what people do, especially on the internet.

   Just because people do it doesn't make it right, but frankly it doesn't bother me, just speeds up reading a thread as they telegraph the fact that there is no need to bother reading their posts.

   Posted 1 minute ago #
9. Malvern Rider - Member 

   @ turnerguy

   
   Among Brexit voters, 59 per cent said cycling was unnatural, compared to a quarter of Remain voters.

   Sixty-eight per cent of Brexit supporters said children should not be taught about cyclist's relationships in primary school, compared to 29 per cent of Remain voters.

   Half of Leave voters did not approve of male cyclists becoming parents, compared to 78 per cent of Remain voters who generally approved.

   FTFY

   http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/homosexuality-decriminalisation-50-gay-sex-unnatural-rights-british-people-believe-same-sex-a7862191.html

   Whichever way you slice it, I'm saddened by the overall figures. Saddened also that you feel somehow qualified to call me a 'hateful bigot' for noting it. What's that all about?

   Posted 19 seconds ago #

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