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Home Cinema: Quiet dialog in multi-channel DTS.

20 posts & 13 voices | Started 16 hours ago by medlow | Latest reply from Jakester

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medlow - Member

I have just been drooling over the speakers in the other thread, and it reminded me of a long standing issue I have with my setup.

Speakers: Kef 1005.1 5.1.
Receiver: Yamaha RX-S600.
Source: WD-TV network streamer, varying file formats from x264, MP4 etc. Via HDMI.

I have never been able to listen to a movie without having to alter the volume to increase the dialog then turn it down when the action stars.
Its a pain in the 4ss! The explosions are too loud and the talking is too quiet.

I have done the usuals like increase the centre channel level higher than all the others. This made a difference but still not acceptable.
Playing with the dynamic range (either on or off) seems to help too but still not enough..

The audio geeks have probably noticed that I am limited for space by looking at my components; small speakers and slimline rcvr.

Am I missing something here?

Posted 16 hours ago #
cloudnine - Member

Buy a bigger centre speaker?

Or just buy some proper speakers..

Posted 16 hours ago #
Cougar - Moderator

I'd be checking that the source isn't transcoding the audio into something stupid first off.

Posted 16 hours ago #
medlow - Member

@Couldnine, I thought the Kef's would be well up to the job of playing relatively quiet volumes to my less than trained ears. Are they really that bad? I've had them years.

@Cougar, how can I check that?.
But to be honest, this happened with hardcopies too, so this eliminates any transcoding shenanigans I assume.

It is not 'wrong' sounding, the centre channel is present and correct, just not obvious like it needs to be when playing at sensible volumes as the kids are in bed.

Posted 16 hours ago #
rossburton - Member

You've definitely verified this happens with a proper surround source (like a bluray plugged directly into the receiver)?

Posted 16 hours ago #
retro83 - Member

Glad somebody else has the same problem, this drives me nuts.

No combination of nightmode, DRC, etc solves it.

In my googling, i found something called "dolby volume" (link) which appears to do what we want. Next to find a receiver which implements it.

There is another one called Odyssey somethingorother and Yamaha have something called "Adaptive DRC" (link) which seems to do it

Posted 16 hours ago #
Kamakazie - Member

Your speakers are just fine. Getting 'bigger' ones won't solve an issue with a quiet centre channel.

Posted 16 hours ago #
medlow - Member

You've definitely verified this happens with a proper surround source (like a bluray plugged directly into the receiver)?
Yep, pretty certain this happened before I jumped into the world of streaming file formats.

Glad somebody else has the same problem, this drives me nuts.
Yep, a few of my mates also have mentioned this too.

Your speakers are just fine. Getting 'bigger' ones won't solve an issue with a quiet centre channel.
I thought this too.

Posted 16 hours ago #
cloudnine - Member

I was just going with the usual stw unhelpful reply by someone..

Have you thought about a sub woofer.. these are good.. you'll be able to feel the explosions!

http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/sub_woofers/xxls400df.htm

Posted 16 hours ago #
The Flying Ox - Member

Mine does this depending on what Surround decoding setting I have it on. The are about 20 different settings so it took a bit of playing to sort out, but if it's on Neural-X or DTS:Cinema then the centre channel is crystal clear regardless of what's happening elsewhere.

Posted 16 hours ago #

medlow - Member

Have you thought about a sub woofer.. these are good.. you'll be able to feel the explosions!
I the matching Kef sub to make it a 5.1 system.
And yes the explosions are excellent. But that's not what I'm wanting when the kids are asleep above the lounge..

Posted 15 hours ago #
5lab - Member

before you buy anything, try a different source to check it's not (somehow) your source (rather than the amp). put kodi on a laptop and play the file from there (over hdmi, with passthru) and see if it still happens.

is the amp displaying DTS on it's screen? If not, the box is doing some interpretation of the signal and maybe needs to be configured to understand that passthrough is on

Posted 15 hours ago #
medlow - Member

Mine does this depending on what Surround decoding setting I have it on. The are about 20 different settings so it took a bit of playing to sort out, but if it's on Neural-X or DTS:Cinema then the centre channel is crystal clear regardless of what's happening elsewhere.

I leave the DSP effects well alone, I do not like the artificial effects they give. Like 'cathedral' or 'shower'. I just dont get the idea behind them.

I leave it on 'straight DTS', no echo or artificial sound is added.
I dont mean 'pure direct' though, that removes all processing and sounds naff.

But as you mention it, I might try some of them again. I immediately discounted them years ago as I thought they were a real gimmick for the 'it plays really loud so must be good' folk. ?

Let me try to find the Yamaha equivalent for DTS:Cinema (I think all AV makers call them different names)

Posted 15 hours ago #
medlow - Member

is the amp displaying DTS on it's screen? If not, the box is doing some interpretation of the signal and maybe needs to be configured to understand that passthrough is on
Yes the amp says DTS. I have the source on HDMI passthrough and I see the little DTS light on and see it as a big name on the front panel.

Posted 15 hours ago #
prawny - Member

Does the tv output have an effect? I’m not a home cinema buff so have no idea but some programmes/channels/films have terrible dialogue volume. Luckily, our terrible LG tv has a clear voice option, which has worked a treat.

Posted 14 hours ago #
wobbliscott - Member

Definately nothing to do with the speakers. I’ve got Kef 5001’s too and hey are excellent and I don’t suffer this issue. It’s married upto an Onkyo receiver. My bet is on your network streamer. You can’t be sure what is going on to the base signal. You can’t beet a proper discreet hard format for consistency of quality of source signal. I get very variable results when streaming even from things like Netflicks and Amazon Prime there is variability between the picture and audio quality.

Posted 13 hours ago #
medlow - Member

Does the tv output have an effect?
No the TV is muted permanently as the audio is from the AV setup.

You can’t be sure what is going on to the base signal.
I understand this point. But I am pretty certain this was a problem before I started streaming stuff.

I'm going to do some testing this weekend with a BR player if possible.

Posted 10 hours ago #
2unfit2ride - Member

I find that some films are just that way inclined, yet it does seem to be worse on DTS encoded films, maybe it's the coding or maybe its the type of films that end up using DTS as the main stream, they seem to be quite action/explosion orientated.
You could eliminate DTS as the issue by changing the option to DD or Dolby 2.0 in the DVD menu. Another option would be to disconnect the .1 (sub) as that will have a fairly high X-over point of about 120-150 htz which causes mayhem with deep male voices (Liam Neeson especially ).

FWIW I have found changing from eggs to floor standers & turning the roll off point of the sub to 60 htz has helped a lot but sometimes it's just the way the film was encoded that's the problem.

HTH.

Posted 10 hours ago #
zokes - Still not a customer

Is there now way to change the output for each speaker? Most dialogue comes out of the centre, so I'd look at trying to increase that. Many receivers have such setting, but they're usually pretty buried in the menus.

Posted 4 hours ago #
Jakester - Member

I have a similar setup to the OP - Kef 2000 summats (the Eggs and the incredible self-destructing subwoofer) and an older Yamaha RX surround receiver.

I use a number of different sources (Freeview, Netflix, Amazon etc) and occasionally I get the same problem. Usually it's down to the source material not being properly encoded for surround sound and the amp not forcing it through one of its surround models. In those circumstances I just switch it to enhanced stereo (which mimics a proper surround programme) and that does the job. Might be worth a look?

My amp also has different decoders - Neologic, Dolby etc, and some stuff works better with one than another.

Posted 47 minutes ago #

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Home Cinema: Quiet dialog in multi-channel DTS.

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